The Official Nik Antropov watch thread

[Toronto Maple Leafs Fan™]

True... and trust me, I'm not a fan of Grabovski @ 2.9 mil  either. And for the record, 2.9 mil. is roughly 70% of what Antropov makes... Not sure where you got 80-90%. Were you just assuming that the big fella was salavating at the opportunity to give the Leafs a good 'ole fashioned home town discount?

It's not so much an assumption based on what I think Nik Antropov would want to do as it is a general belief that when you sign a player to an extension before he reaches the open market it tends to get done for a smaller figure than he could probably get on the open market. By all accounts Antropov was interested in re-signing, so I'm relatively comfortable assuming that in this case.

[Sarge]

True... and trust me, I'm not a fan of Grabovski @ 2.9 mil  either. And for the record, 2.9 mil. is roughly 70% of what Antropov makes... Not sure where you got 80-90%. Were you just assuming that the big fella was salavating at the opportunity to give the Leafs a good 'ole fashioned home town discount?

It's not so much an assumption based on what I think Nik Antropov would want to do as it is a general belief that when you sign a player to an extension before he reaches the open market it tends to get done for a smaller figure than he could probably get on the open market. By all accounts Antropov was interested in re-signing, so I'm relatively comfortable assuming that in this case.

While thats probably true, maybe BB just wasn't comfortable with the term he was looking for? Maybe he was more comfortable with Grabovski @ with 2.9mil cap hit over 3 years then Antopov with say a discounted rate of 3.5 mil. over 4. - We'll never know for sure. I was never a really big fan of Antropov's and I'm not much of a Grabovski fan as I used to be either. In hindsight and at the end of the day, I think both should have remained unsigned.

[Toronto Maple Leafs Fan™]

While thats probably true, maybe BB just wasn't comfortable with the term he was looking for?

Obviously there was something that Burke didn't like about the deal, that's not really a question. The question is that, given that competing this year was clearly the goal, whether or not it made sense to retain a guy with Antro's offensive abilities and supplemental abilities for a pretty reasonable cap hit.

I think the only way you can justify that decision, in hindsight, if you "weren't a fan" of Antropovs.

[Sarge]

While thats probably true, maybe BB just wasn't comfortable with the term he was looking for?

Obviously there was something that Burke didn't like about the deal, that's not really a question. The question is that, given that competing this year was clearly the goal, whether or not it made sense to retain a guy with Antro's offensive abilities and supplemental abilities for a pretty reasonable cap hit.

I think the only way you can justify that decision, in hindsight, if you "weren't a fan" of Antropovs.

... Or if you don't thing Antropov has (and/or was aking for) a "reasonable cap hit" and term.

[Toronto Maple Leafs Fan™]

... Or if you don't thing Antropov has (and/or was aking for) a "reasonable cap hit" and term.

Which, given what he is and what he signed for, is pretty hard to justify. A big, defensively responsible playmaker with the hands to score 25 goals a year won't run you less than what he got.

[Sarge]

... Or if you don't thing Antropov has (and/or was aking for) a "reasonable cap hit" and term.

Which, given what he is and what he signed for, is pretty hard to justify. A big, defensively responsible playmaker with the hands to score 25 goals a year won't run you less than what he got.

With an meical record stacked taller than all 6'6" of him...

2008-09 Total Tor/NYR NHL GP - 81
2007-08 Toronto NHL GP - 72
2006-07 Toronto NHL GP - 54
2005-06 Toronto NHL GP - 57
2003-04 Toronto NHL GP - 62
2002-03 Toronto NHL GP - 72
2001-02 Toronto NHL GP - 11 (34 AHL)
2000-01 Toronto NHL GP - 52
1999-00 Toronto NHL GP - 66 (2 AHL)

Yes, recent years indicate he's been healthier but personally, I'm not making another long term commitment on him (or his bum knees.) Moreover, while I agree with your analysis of the player, I still feel its a fairly steep price given the production. - Talk to me 2 years from now about it... I hope the big fella makes me eat my words because I wish him well but I maintain the deal is an overpayment based on these facts . Personally, I feel I "justified" myself quite easily with the explaination.   

[Toronto Maple Leafs Fan™]

Moreover, while I agree with your analysis of the player, I still feel its a fairly steep price given the production. - Talk to me 2 years from now about it... I hope the big fella makes me eat my words because I wish him well but I maintain the deal is an overpayment based on these facts .

The problem is that the way you're looking at this deal is pretty much directly at odds with what sets the salary scale in the NHL. In your perfect world, yes, maybe you can decide that a guy who's been consistently healthy for two straight seasons but has a history of injury trouble should sign for less than what Antropov got but the reality is that in the actual NHL guys with far more troubling injury histories(Gaborik) or guys currently suffering from significant injuries(Kessel) are going to sign for their values as players irrespective of their injury problems. As to his production, again, find a guy who scored at the rate he did who went for less.

Without prior knowledge of a specific injury that makes him likely to miss games in the future there's no actual hard facts here other than him missing games in the past. Like I said, you're "not a fan" so I'm sure you are easily convinced of your own argument. The problem is it just doesn't mesh well with the actual salary structure in the sport.

[Sarge]

Moreover, while I agree with your analysis of the player, I still feel its a fairly steep price given the production. - Talk to me 2 years from now about it... I hope the big fella makes me eat my words because I wish him well but I maintain the deal is an overpayment based on these facts .

The problem is that the way you're looking at this deal is pretty much directly at odds with what sets the salary scale in the NHL. In your perfect world, yes, maybe you can decide that a guy who's been consistently healthy for two straight seasons but has a history of injury trouble should sign for less than what Antropov got but the reality is that in the actual NHL guys with far more troubling injury histories(Gaborik) or guys currently suffering from significant injuries(Kessel) are going to sign for their values as players irrespective of their injury problems. As to his production, again, find a guy who scored at the rate he did who went for less.

Without prior knowledge of a specific injury that makes him likely to miss games in the future there's no actual hard facts here other than him missing games in the past. Like I said, you're "not a fan" so I'm sure you are easily convinced of your own argument. The problem is it just doesn't mesh well with the actual salary structure in the sport.

I'm at work and unable to put the time in but giving it a peco-second's thought, how does Afinegonov(sp?) grab ya? Given the time, I'm sure I'll find bunches more... And mesh well with the salary structure of the sport? I'm not sure your understanding of it is more tuned-in than mine (or most people's here) if that's what your getting at. What exactly does my opinion of Antropov's deal out of line with this sports "salary structure?"       

[bustaheims]

I'm at work and unable to put the time in but giving it a peco-second's thought, how does Afinegonov(sp?) grab ya? Given the time, I'm sure I'll find bunches more... And mesh well with the salary structure of the sport? I'm not sure your understanding of it is more tuned-in than mine (or most people's here) if that's what your getting at. What exactly does my opinion of Antropov's deal out of line with this sports "salary structure?"       

The same Afinigonov who had 48 points total over the previous 2 seasons and was just hoping to resurrect his NHL career? I doubt that'll impress Nik all that much.

[Toronto Maple Leafs Fan™]

I'm at work and unable to put the time in but giving it a peco-second's thought, how does Afinegonov(sp?) grab ya?

He grabs me as a guy who wasn't producing at all in his contract year. Antropov almost produced at twice his rate.

Given the time, I'm sure I'll find bunches more... And mesh well with the salary structure of the sport? I'm not sure your understanding of it is more tuned-in than mine (or most people's here) if that's what your getting at. What exactly does my opinion of Antropov's deal out of line with this sports "salary structure?"       

The idea that players salaries are going to be lower based on prior years injuries when a guy is coming off of several healthy and productive seasons in a row just doesn't have any basis in reality.

[Sarge]

I'm at work and unable to put the time in but giving it a peco-second's thought, how does Afinegonov(sp?) grab ya? Given the time, I'm sure I'll find bunches more... And mesh well with the salary structure of the sport? I'm not sure your understanding of it is more tuned-in than mine (or most people's here) if that's what your getting at. What exactly does my opinion of Antropov's deal out of line with this sports "salary structure?"      

The same Afinigonov who had 48 points total over the previous 2 seasons and was just hoping to resurrect his NHL career? I doubt that'll impress Nik all that much.

I'm not really interested in impressing Nik. I think if he's going question one's understanding of salary structure, he should be prepared to called on it. I think above all, one has to look at "value" when it comes to UFA  signings and sorry, I take Afinogenov(sp?) and his 800,000k over Antropov and his 4.1.mil any day.

[Toronto Maple Leafs Fan™]

I'm not really interested in impressing Nik. I think if he's going question one's understanding of salary structure, he should be prepared to called on it. I think above all, one has to look at "value" when it comes to UFA  signings and sorry, I take Afinogenov(sp?) and his 800,000k over Antropov and his 4.1.mil any day.

I said find a guy who scored at Antropov's rate that then signed for less than Antropov. Your example was a guy who scored nowhere near Antropov's rate and, in fact, was in a completely opposite situation than Antropov was in.

[bustaheims]

I'm not really interested in impressing Nik. I think if he's going question one's understanding of salary structure, he should be prepared to called on it. I think above all, one has to look at "value" when it comes to UFA  signings and sorry, I take Afinogenov(sp?) and his 800,000k over Antropov and his 4.1.mil any day.

Well, the way things played out this summer, NHL GMs clearly didn't feel the same way. Antropov got his contract on July 2nd, which means GMs were actively pursuing from the beginning of free agency. Afinogenov, on the other hand had no contract going in to training camp and only got one after he proved himself during the pre-season. That Afinogenov has provided better price production this season is a nice bonus for the Trashers, but immaterial when it comes to the contract he signed this fall.

On top of that, if Afinogenov isn't producing, he's just taking up a roster spot. If Antropov isn't producing, he's still good in the faceoff dot, solid defensively, provides some physical play and is a big, strong body that's hard to take off the puck or to move out from in front of the net. As a GM, if I'm looking to improve my team, I'm certainly willing to pay significantly more for the guy who has not only produced significantly better over the previous two seasons, but provides all those other things to my team. Antropov had a lot of value this summer, Afinogenov didn't have any.

[Sarge]

I'm not really interested in impressing Nik. I think if he's going question one's understanding of salary structure, he should be prepared to called on it. I think above all, one has to look at "value" when it comes to UFA  signings and sorry, I take Afinogenov(sp?) and his 800,000k over Antropov and his 4.1.mil any day.

I said find a guy who scored at Antropov's rate that then signed for less than Antropov. Your example was a guy who scored nowhere near Antropov's rate and, in fact, was in a completely opposite situation than Antropov was in.

True... Sorry, I thought you asked "find a guy who scores (not scored) at the rate he did who went for less. Nevertheless, my opinion of his deal really has less to do with me not being o fan of his than you think. Again, given the time, I might be able to pull some guys who actually signed for less. Unfortunatly, now isn't the time. Understand, I'm not backing out of the discussion so please, remind me later should some name not be raised by some other posters.  

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Is Antropov good at face-offs now?