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Messages - Potvin29

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1
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 04:15:57 PM »
Straight up, who do you think most would take?:
Crosby $8.7 for 10 years
Kessel  $8.0 for 7 years

Crosby. I'm glad we've been able to establish this twice now.

Wow, a lot of people in this thread would take the best player in the world at well below market rate over Kessel at market rate or slightly below market rate!

2
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: 2015 Development Camp
« on: Today at 03:35:13 PM »
Hey Potvin where is the link almost to blurry to read, thanks for posting by the way

I put a link to it.  I'm also able to click the photo and enlarge it.

4
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / 2015 Development Camp
« on: Today at 03:12:37 PM »
Camp begins next week in Collingwood.

Roster: http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=773699&navid=DL|TOR|home


5
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 02:28:15 PM »

I think earlier you used the apt phrase "28 teams shrugged" at the chance to get this top-drawer sniper.  That tells you everything you need to know about how Kessel is viewed, and that Rutherford is blowing a very large cloud of smoke.

Remember though, his contract length and $$ has much more to do with this transaction than Kessel's production.  There's a fair bit of risk attached to a 7 year commitment.

If Kessel had one year left on a deal that paid him $8mil, they'd be lined up at the deadline for this guy.

It was a math problem, not a Kessel problem.

Exactly.  There just aren't a ton of teams who are a) in contending/near contending with b) cap room for Kessel.  If he was UFA and teams could have more control over how they make room?  Teams would be all over it.  But in this case you need to take up a lot of cap space and give up some assets in return.  If there was no cap then you'd likely see half the league make an offer.

6
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 01:52:00 PM »
Kasperi Kapanen scouting report from Corey Pronman before last year's draft.  Has him 9th (had Nylander 3rd in the ranking):



Link if too small: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI7Uu__WsAAp-Wr.png:large

7
All Sports But Hockey / Re: 2015 Toronto Blue Jays thread
« on: Today at 01:35:49 PM »
Donaldson's WAR is 4.4 through 79 games.

8
Plus, Robidas is still on the team.

9
I don't understand why we aren't trying for a proven veteran for leadership and to help the young guys learn what it takes to win..
Someone like Justin Williams or Brad Richards.  Both have won the Conn Smythe trophy and both were available at a very reasonable price.
They need someone like that in the room....
I don't get it...thoughts???

This isn't NHL15, they need to actually want to sign in Toronto. 

10
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 11:13:53 AM »
This was a pretty good summation from Mirtle:

Quote
He’s an anomaly – an odd duck that has such remarkable natural athletic gifts that for him succeeding was never about the typical “look like you care” mentality that permeates hockey.

Kessel cared, but he cared in his own weird Kessel way. He wanted to win, but he wasn’t the kind of player who could bleed on the ice in an obvious lost cause – like the end of last season – night after night.

But he was beloved by a lot of his teammates in Toronto because they could see something there in his awkward silences and occasional jokes. They could also see his incredible talent, every day.

“Any sport you want to play him in, he’ll beat you at,” teammate Joffrey Lupul once said.

Did Phil Kessel have some flaws as a Leaf? Did he deserve some blame? Absolutely.

But he also never should have been set up to be more than what he was, which is a quiet, unassuming winger who isn’t good defensively and who can score goals better than almost anybody on the planet.

You talk to people in Wisconsin, and that’s what Kessel was when he was 13 or 14 years old. That’s what he was when he moved to the U.S. national development team as a teenager and that’s what he was as a rookie with the Boston Bruins back in 2006.

He bombed his draft interviews; he slipped to fifth, despite having the point totals of a No. 1 overall pick.

He was always a bad fit for Toronto – and especially for this Toronto: a talent-bereft team that became mired in a mindless non-rebuilding rebuild, one without a proper No. 1 centre or No. 1 defenceman and built heavy on wingers without defensive ability.

He was the centrepiece of a team with no centre, no real direction or future.

That he kept producing in that mess is part of the anomaly; that he was expected to do any more than that, given his background, is absurd.

Kessel is what he is. He is what he was when Brian Burke foolishly bet the farm on him back in 2009; he is what he was when his coaches in Ann Arbor tried in vain to get him to backcheck and forecheck and do everything else they’d come to expect from eager top prospects.

“I said to him ‘You need to be a well-rounded player,’ ” said David Quinn, Kessel’s coach with USA Hockey in those early years. “He looked at me with this bewildered look and said ‘Well I’ll just go out and get another goal.’ ”

More than 10 years later, that’s still Kessel.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-viewed-dumping-kessel-as-essential-to-their-rebuild/article25224289/

11
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 10:51:24 AM »
Kessel was a phenomenal scorer but that's where it ended. He was nothing more than a one trick pony that could not contribute to your team in any other way. His defence was horrible as most point out but the one thing that infuriated me the most was him laying there on the bench with his head buried in his arms gasping for air. What example is that to your teammates who look for inspiration from your leaders at critical times?

When people say all he could do is score are they just ignoring his playmaking ability?  His ability to gain the zone with the puck?

What does him gasping for air have to do with it?  Is that not a sign that he was trying his hardest if he's gasping for air?  People act like he's the only player in the league that needs to catch their breath on the bench.

12
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 10:46:05 AM »
Virtually every scouting service out there had Kapanen as a top-6 winger with a very high offensive upside at the time of the draft. Did he have a Nylander-like post draft season? No. But few 18 years do. During training camp there was a lot of talk about him actually making the Penguins team. They were very impressed by his play. In the end they decided not to rush him and returned him to Finland where he played on a pretty bad team and had some ups and downs. That's not uncommon for 18 year olds playing in a European mens league. But he ended up leading his team in scoring during the playoffs (they were eliminated in 6 games). Then he came to finish his season in the AHL where he scored 5 points in 7 playoffs game. Again pretty good for a player his age playing in a brand new league/team.

I don't see how a season like that decimates a young players upside. Is he a lock to become a top-6 forward in the future? No, but you can say that about almost any prospect. You (seemingly arbitrarily) wrote that he only has a 33% chance of becoming a top-6 player like it was a bad thing. There's actually systems out there that attempt to nail down the chances of a prospect becoming an impact NHLer and 33% is a pretty good number to have for these kids.

Here's one 2014 write up on him from Future Considerations:


13
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 10:20:43 AM »
I mean, what's the difference between putting yourself in a position to lose and trying to lose?  If I actively put myself in a position to do something then by doing that I am trying to do that thing.  If you put yourself in a position to lose then how are you not also trying to lose?

I don't really see this as something that requires a distinction.

I agree it's a fine distinction but I think it's there all the same. It's like running a 100 meters with a 50 pound weight on your back vs. sort of half-heartedly jogging 100 meters. The time might ultimately be the same but they reflect different goals.

Alright, I can see it more that way.  Seems to be degrees of trying to lose then, either free falling or with a parachute - you're going down either way.

14
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 09:52:52 AM »

And I'd keep Bozak on the top line.

And that right there is the difference between actually rebuilding a team and doing it from your armchair. Keeping a player in a position he hasn't earned sends a terrible message throughout an organization. Rewarding failure doesn't inspire success.

There's a difference between putting your team in a position to lose and trying to lose. If you care at all about developing the young players on or about to be on the roster, you don't do the latter.

I'm glad you said that because I got jumped on a few weeks back when I pointed out that tanking means the latter while many use the word loosely and wrongly to mean the former. Buffalo didn't tank last year. They put themselves into a position to lose. Teams almost never tank in the actual sense.

I mean, what's the difference between putting yourself in a position to lose and trying to lose?  If I actively put myself in a position to do something then by doing that I am trying to do that thing.  If you put yourself in a position to lose then how are you not also trying to lose?

I don't really see this as something that requires a distinction.

15
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Kessel traded to Penguins
« on: Today at 08:19:52 AM »
Top flight? I don't know about that. Decent prospect? That describes him better to me. He's not a sure fire NHLer - in part due to his size. He didn't crack HF's top 50 prospects. He was about 3rd best Pens prospect and he's about that on the Leafs.

There's a fair chance that they don't get a top 6 forward/top 4 dman in return for Kessel.

ESPN's top-50 prospect rankings had him 14th, I'd take that over HFBoards' rankings any day of the week. In the 2014 Entry Draft rankings most people had Kapanen quite high. Bob McKenzie's draft rankings had him 11th, ISS had him 13th, THN had him 10th. Central Scouting listed him as the top ranked European. Sure, he fell a bit from those spots but stuff like that happens. He should still be a pretty highly regarded prospect. And most people considered him Pittsburgh's clear-cut 2nd best prospect behind Pouliot, not 3rd.

As for his size, at last years combine he was listed as 6'0", 181 lbs. That was as a 17-year old. I would imagine that he's added a bit to that frame already and he's not even 19 years old yet. His size really shouldn't be that much of a concern.

Also a late birthday, only about 3 months older than Mikko Rantanen who went 10th overall this past draft.

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