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2025 Offseason Thread: Spring Cleaning

dappleganger said:
Goaltending is too fickle. Gotta go with the hot hand.
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I'd argue there is currently no hot hand in the US net, and certainly, this past season's performances are no indication of who will be the hot hand when the Olympic roll around. Hellebuyck's playoff performance would give me pause if I was putting together an Olympic team. I wouldn't be naming him to the team as the assumed starter - which would be the case if he was among the initial 6.
 
Is there a case of a player the Leafs development team has that they can really identify as a success that contributed anything to the Leafs?

Knies was a nice pick that the Leafs scouts did a great job with but he came into the NHL ready to contribute. His game has improved but how much of that is natural development from a talented player.

Holmberg was drafted late and is at least a serviceable NHL player but he's more a guy who should be rotated in and out of the lineup because he's a net nothing in the offensive zone.

What has the Leafs player development system really generated. I get we trade away a lot of high end picks but we also haven't really had many players blossom.
 
L K said:
Is there a case of a player the Leafs development team has that they can really identify as a success that contributed anything to the Leafs?

Knies was a nice pick that the Leafs scouts did a great job with but he came into the NHL ready to contribute. His game has improved but how much of that is natural development from a talented player.

Holmberg was drafted late and is at least a serviceable NHL player but he's more a guy who should be rotated in and out of the lineup because he's a net nothing in the offensive zone.

What has the Leafs player development system really generated. I get we trade away a lot of high end picks but we also haven't really had many players blossom.
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McMann's probably the best example. Holl to a degree. There's also guys like Marchment, Moore, Brazeau who spent at least some time going through the Leafs developmental system who ended up being players after leaving here. Oddly enough all these guys were UFAs. Leafs have had arguably more success developing those guys than draft picks.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
McMann's probably the best example. Holl to a degree. There's also guys like Marchment, Moore, Brazeau who spent at least some time going through the Leafs developmental system who ended up being players after leaving here. Oddly enough all these guys were UFAs. Leafs have had arguably more success developing those guys than draft picks.
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Yeah McMann is a fair one.

A lot of the other guys really broke out after leaving the organization though so while I think they deserve some credit in development....Marchment broke out 2 years after he was traded for Malgin. Brazeau didn't play in the NHL until 3 years after he left the Leafs organization. Moore's breakout into a middle 6 player was 2 years after he was traded. The fact that none of them really did it until after leaving is the indictment.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
McMann's probably the best example. Holl to a degree. There's also guys like Marchment, Moore, Brazeau who spent at least some time going through the Leafs developmental system who ended up being players after leaving here. Oddly enough all these guys were UFAs. Leafs have had arguably more success developing those guys than draft picks.
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I wonder if that's an issue with the types of players the scouting staff were instructed to focus on. Seems like the focus was on smaller skilled guys under Dubas, and they have a harder road to the NHL than guys with a little more size (not even necessarily big guys, just NHL average sized). Pre-Dubas, size was more of a focus, but skill seemed to take a bit of a back seat. Need to find the balance between the two.
 
bustaheims said:
I'd argue there is currently no hot hand in the US net, and certainly, this past season's performances are no indication of who will be the hot hand when the Olympic roll around. Hellebuyck's playoff performance would give me pause if I was putting together an Olympic team. I wouldn't be naming him to the team as the assumed starter - which would be the case if he was among the initial 6.
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Yeah, gotta wait til next season to see who is playing best. Maybe Swayman bounces back with a full camp and is looking like a Vezina finalist mid-season.
 
herman said:
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bustaheims said:
I wonder if that's an issue with the types of players the scouting staff were instructed to focus on. Seems like the focus was on smaller skilled guys under Dubas, and they have a harder road to the NHL than guys with a little more size (not even necessarily big guys, just NHL average sized). Pre-Dubas, size was more of a focus, but skill seemed to take a bit of a back seat. Need to find the balance between the two.
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Ahhh yes, the truculence, pugnacity and testosterone era.
 

A few names on this last I've already seen brought up a number of times here (Jeannot, Mangiapane, Smith, Brazeau, Tanev).

Two names that I hadn't thought a ton about that were included here both come from Carolina: Eric Robinson and Brent Burns.

Robinson, 30, is a "big, speedy, physical" as the article says who's typically put up good offensive numbers in limited roles. On most/all playoff teams he's probably a 4th line guy which is where he'd continue to be here though I wonder if he tries to find a team he can have a larger role on to make more of a name for himself. Something like Pacioretty-4C-Robinson could be solid, although really Robinson could be swapped for any of Jeannot/Brazeau/Tanev there.

Everyone knows Brent Burns. Big, offensive defenceman who loves, LOVES, to shoot the puck. The red flag here though would be that his powerplay numbers took a huge nosedive this season. After being a pretty consistent 20+ PPP guy for like the past decade he somehow managed just 3 this past season. If the video and analysis shows that's just what he is now at 40 then obviously stay clear but if the team thinks they can extract one more good year out of him I think he'd be a good fit on the bottom pair.

I think a big thing this article shows is that while there's very little elite talent in this years free agent pool there's still a pretty long list of solid depth options. If the Leafs can attract enough on reasonable deals does that make anyone beyond guys like Kampf/Jarnkrok expendable too in order to recoup some draft picks? Obvious candidates would be McMann, who no-showed in the playoffs, and Benoit, who had a great playoffs (maybe raising his stock) but might be the odd man out if the Leafs want to bring in another puck moving defenceman.
 
herman said:
I can see Robertson doing this
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In theory, yes. Robertson is one of the Leafs most aggressive forwards when it comes to forechecking. Problem is, he's not very effective at winning puck battles and spends too much time on the ice...either by getting knocked over or just falling on his own.

He and Marchand are listed on hockeydb as both being 5-9, 180 pounds but Robertson looks smaller. One could argue that maybe Robertson just needs to get stronger and learn to use his body more effectively, and since he's only 23 maybe there is something to that. However, Marchand's second year in the league, at age 22, he was already a major contributor to the Bruins Cup win with 11 playoff goals. Can Robertson ever get to that level or even near it. I have no idea at this point.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
The Leafs could theoretically give his agent permission to talk to other teams before July 1st I guess in exchange for waiving his NMC for a team that's showing interest. But yeah I agree it's looking more and more likely something like that won't happen.
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Reports are Marner's camp hasn't responded to the Leafs' outreach, except maybe to invite them to a Zoom pitch after July 1.
 
It's going to be so funny when everyone just uses up their cap room by July 3rd.
 
herman said:
It's going to be so funny when everyone just uses up their cap room by July 3rd.
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It’s likely because Vegas needs to make some moves to fit him in.
 
The amonsity comes from the fact that the Leafs got crap value from a guy they paid off the charts for 6 years ago. They couldn't do much else because of some overpayments the stars demanded. In the business world, when you get paid on projected value and you don't deliver, you get fired. It doesn't end well. That's what this feels like.
 
Are the Leafs front office placing the blame on Marner in internal communications? Or is he just conflating the social media response with organizational position? Marner was poised to be the next Gilmour even with these exact statistical performances.
 
You just have to watch the refereeing in the Final to understand why the Leaf roster as currently constructed can never win a Cup. Most infractions are ignored by officials including more than a few that should have been major penalties. We have some supremely talented players but they all play the same style of hockey. Normally this would not be problem if the rest of the roster was punctuated by a few grinders and hitters.

I do not blame Marner for the simple reason that replayed exactly as expected during the regular season and in the playoffs. He has a solid playoff point average in comparison with Leaf stars of the past and like the regular season, he gets a lot more assists than goals.

The Marner problem is that the room he is allowed during the season disappears during the playoffs and any fouls against him usually go uncalled. So we have Marner, Matthews and Nylander all playing the same type of hockey and almost no one to create room for them and to keep opponents from hooking and high sticking them.

The problem has always been roster construction around these stars. Sure they occupy a lot of cap space but tougher wingers and 3rd and 4rth liners don't cost all that much. Leaf management has proven unable to find tough players despite regularly turning over the 3rd and 4th line players and defence. That is the DNA change this team needs.
 
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