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Edmonton arena deal collapses

Kin

Kin

New member
Edmonton city council has unanimously voted to walk away with their deal with Darryl Katz to build a new arena, largely over a request from Katz to get a further 6 million at least per year in subsidies.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/edmonton-councillors-walk-away-from-arena-project-deal-collapses-1.1000616

Two quotes struck me as interesting

Mandel made the comments after councillors voted unanimously to walk away from the deal agreed to last year with Katz to build the $475-million arena, starting in 2013.
...
Under the original deal, city taxpayers and ticket buyers would pay to build the arena, which, with land, borrowing costs and surrounding infrastructure factored in, is now effectively at $700 million and rising.
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But Katz, who bought the team in 2008, has said the franchise is losing money.

He also said the city can afford his new demands because the arena will spur retail, office, and residential buildings around it that will bring in an estimated $2 billion more in tax revenues over 20 years.

However councillors were told by Farbrother that the arena will actually bring in about a quarter of that figure, $584 million, and that almost all of that money would be needed to pay off construction of the rink.
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The Oilers, according to Forbes, made 17 million dollars last year.
 
I'd say it raises questions about the accuracy of Forbes' numbers, we know those questions should have already been out there.
 
bustaheims said:
I'd say it raises questions about the accuracy of Forbes' numbers, we know those questions should have already been out there.
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I think it's both busta. For sure Forbes' numbers are already suspect, but it sure wouldn't be the first time a wealthy business owner cried poor in trying to get government funding.
 
#1PilarFan said:
I think it's both busta. For sure Forbes' numbers are already suspect, but it sure wouldn't be the first time a wealthy business owner cried poor in trying to get government funding.
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Oh, for sure. The truth almost certainly lies somewhere in the middle.
 
bustaheims said:
I'd say it raises questions about the accuracy of Forbes' numbers, we know those questions should have already been out there.
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Well, Forbes' numbers have never purported to be anything other than an estimate so I'm not sure this raises any further questions without having an actual look at the Oilers' books.
 
Since it's not a direct quote, I wonder if maybe it's a misinterpretation of what Katz said. Perhaps, he meant that he's lost money on the Oilers since purchasing them or something along those lines?
 
bustaheims said:
Since it's not a direct quote, I wonder if maybe it's a misinterpretation of what Katz said. Perhaps, he meant that he's lost money on the Oilers since purchasing them or something along those lines?
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I thought the same thing.  Like: (if we don't get a new arena soon) the franchise is losing money.  Or: (if I continue buying these expensive cars) the franchise is losing money.
 
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
Build the arena, send bill to NHLPA, tell them they owe 50%.
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Katz isn't paying 50%.  In the "real" deal, the only one both sides agreed to, he was to pay $100 million up front for the 500 million stadium.  He gets to collect all revenue from there even though it will be in the city's name.  So his contribution will be 20% of the capital and reap 100% of the revenue.  Then he changed his mind and refused to pay the 100 million upfront and wanted to pay $5 mill a year for 35 years, which will lower the amount with inflation and etc.  Then he changed his mind again and thought robbery would be a good idea.  He now wants to no longer pay that amount and wants a subsidy of 6 million a year.  The city just asked for him to explain why in front of the public and he refused. 

I say to edmonton, if he leaves a) good riddance you don't have to live with ballard years
                                            b) why would the NHL fight so hard to keep franchise in PHX and just let EDM leave. 
 
#1PilarFan said:
bustaheims said:
I'd say it raises questions about the accuracy of Forbes' numbers, we know those questions should have already been out there.
Click to expand...
I think it's both busta. For sure Forbes' numbers are already suspect, but it sure wouldn't be the first time a wealthy business owner cried poor in trying to get government funding.
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Or to bring a union to its knees, or to pay less taxes...
 
Ignoring the fact that Katz is still running from the playbook that claims that stadiums actually benefit cities financially.  The guy demanded more money in the deal late in the negotiations and outright refused to justify why.  I'm not sure how that comes across as anything other than extortion, especially under the context of his very public visit to Seattle.
 
Rebel_1812 said:
b) why would the NHL fight so hard to keep franchise in PHX and just let EDM leave.
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Because they actually built an arena in Phoenix. Same reason why it was so easy for Atlanta to move to Winnipeg.
 
dm_for_pm said:
Rebel_1812 said:
b) why would the NHL fight so hard to keep franchise in PHX and just let EDM leave.
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Because they actually built an arena in Phoenix. Same reason why it was so easy for Atlanta to move to Winnipeg.
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Well, exactly, but there's also a fundamental difference in ownership. In Phoenix they're looking for someone to buy a team to keep it in a market they feel an obligation to, in Edmonton the team has an owner who might want to move the team he owns. The NHL has been involved with the process in getting the deal with Katz and the City that just collapsed. At a certain point though, it's Katz's team.
 
Peter D. said:
Nik the Trik said:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=423263

Unbelievably, the City of Edmonton is going to build a new 600 million(estimated, remember) arena for the Oilers and only make the Oilers pay 161.5 million of it. What a complete and total scamjob.
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Why billionaire owners are reliant on taxpayers to pay the bulk of these projects is beyond me.
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Why taxpayers don't give the boot to city councils that make these deals is what's beyond me.
 
Peter D. said:
Nik the Trik said:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=423263

Unbelievably, the City of Edmonton is going to build a new 600 million(estimated, remember) arena for the Oilers and only make the Oilers pay 161.5 million of it. What a complete and total scamjob.
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Why billionaire owners are reliant on taxpayers to pay the bulk of these projects is beyond me.
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Well, the easy answer is that they're not really. They just would prefer to get something for free rather than have to pay for it.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Well, the easy answer is that they're not really. They just would prefer to get something for free rather than have to pay for it.
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That's basically it. You don't get rich by spending your own money - you get there by getting other people to spend their money on things for you.
 
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