Hendricks for Chavez

[Joe S.]

I don't get this trade...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-blue-jays-acquire-rhp-jesse-chavez/

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Chavez is more valuable to the team as a #5/long man?

 

[Joe S.]

His numbers seem really underwhelming... Especially in that giant Oakland Park.

 

[Peter D.]

His numbers seem really underwhelming... Especially in that giant Oakland Park.

Underwhelming was the exact term I was going to use regarding this trade.

 

[Captain Canuck]

I don't like this trade at all! You give up 4 years of control on Hendriks who had a strong season for a guy with bad numbers who is a free agent after next season and 6 years older.
My best guess is much like what Potvin29 said: #5 starter or long reliever. With free agency just beginning though the timing of this deal is curious, seems like the type of move you make late in the off-season when you are desperate for an arm to plug into the rotation.

 

[Kin]

His numbers seem really underwhelming... Especially in that giant Oakland Park.

Were you really expecting to be overwhelmed by the numbers of a starting pitcher that was acquired for a short reliever with no real track record of success?

Or even appropriately whelmed?

 

[bustaheims]

Were you really expecting to be overwhelmed by the numbers of a starting pitcher that was acquired for a short reliever with no real track record of success?

Or even appropriately whelmed?

Seriously. The Jays picked up a guy with a little more versatility for a middle reliever who's really only had a few months of success in his career, and can be easily replaced with a bargain basement free agent, waiver claim or prospect in the system. Not that the Chavez type is especially difficult to find, but it's slightly harder to find guys who are comfortable alternating between starting and relieving - and contribute at a decent enough level in both - than it is to find a decent one inning guy.

 

[Kin]

Also, you know, just last year Chavez had a 108 ERA+ while striking out 119 hitters in 125 innings as a starter. His FIP numbers are decent-ish and he's going into a contract year. It's not going to set the world on fire but it seems like an ok risk to take.

 

[Joe S.]

His numbers seem really underwhelming... Especially in that giant Oakland Park.

Were you really expecting to be overwhelmed by the numbers of a starting pitcher that was acquired for a short reliever with no real track record of success?

Or even appropriately whelmed?

I don't really care honestly... But for a team that may have a budget issue to let go of a strong throwing pitcher who was making league minimum and under team control for this doesn't make much sense...

That being said am upset Hendricks is gone? No, do I think he's worth more than this? No...

 

[Kin]

I don't really care honestly... But for a team that may have a budget issue to let go of a strong throwing pitcher who was making league minimum and under team control for this doesn't make much sense...

Well, I think the key to finding the sense here lies in what Busta said. Realistically the Jays were going to need to add a spot starter/long relief type and what this trade does is instead make them in the market for a short reliever who generally come cheaper or are easier to find internally.

So if a Chavez type on the market costs 5 or 6 million and a Hendriks type costs 3 or 4 then it helps the budget to add Chavez via trade and try to find a Hendriks on the market as opposed to vice-versa.

Team control is only really a big deal if the player in question is due a big raise. Hendriks probably wasn't.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't really care honestly... But for a team that may have a budget issue to let go of a strong throwing pitcher who was making league minimum and under team control for this doesn't make much sense...

The thing is, you can pick up Hendricks replacements for near the league minimum every winter. In fact, the Jays probably already have a couple in the system somewhere. You can't always pick up a Chavez type for the ~$5M he'll end up with if he goes to arbitration.

 

[bustaheims]

Also, as we saw in the playoffs, a long-man in the bullpen can have tremendous value. Much more than a one-inning guy that isn't one of your top two or three guys to go to in high leverage situations.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Also, as we saw in the playoffs, a long-man in the bullpen can have tremendous value. Much more than a one-inning guy that isn't one of your top two or three guys to go to in high leverage situations.

Absolutely and we witnessed this first-hand with Kris Medlen vs. the Jays. It was a piece the Jays were desperately missing and it was magnified by the Cecil injury.
Hopefully, Chavez can be the guy to fill that role for the Jays.

 

[Joe S.]

These are all good points I'm not going to argue them... I guess the last image I have in my mind was game 4 and Hendricks pitching almost 5 flawless innings. He just seemed really solid to me... He's only 26 and I just thought he might have a shot at being a starter again.

 

[L K]

Also, as we saw in the playoffs, a long-man in the bullpen can have tremendous value. Much more than a one-inning guy that isn't one of your top two or three guys to go to in high leverage situations.

Absolutely, providing this isn't the Jays way of going with an altogether unimpressive rotation of Stroman/Estrada/Dickey/Hutchison/Chavez.  Prolific offense aside (assuming Colabello/Smoak can reproduce their offense, that Martin gets healthy and isn't awful like his 2nd half, that Jose/Encarnacion don't start declining), that starting rotation won't get the Jays into the postseason.

I like the move from a depth perspective.  I also do value a starter over a reliever, especially one that should be sitting lower on the rotation chart than Osuna/Cecil/Sanchez.  Hendriks was still going to be a middle reliever for the Jays next year.

 

[Joe S.]

Morosi was on the FAN this morning and his synopsis of the trade was pretty much echoed what I said here...

I'm still not really convinced on the value of this move.

 

[Kin]

I'm pretty sure the Blue Jays front office is aware of park effects. Likewise, I'm guessing that they can look at his ERA+ which accounts for park effects and see that it doesn't paint a picture all that different from his ERA.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

It is a little puzzling. I mean, Chavez was here once before and he sucked. He's sucked for every organization he's pitched for aside for his time in Oakland, where every pitcher is able to have some degree of success pitching in that park. Meanwhile, Hendriks had a phenomenal year and threw harder than before thanks to a new fitness regime. Seems like they were drawn to Chavez's ability to throw strikes. 

Not that either are an integral part of the team, but I'd rather have Hendriks spot-start and in long relief than Chavez. I predict we will see Chavez being sent to AAA or DFA'd at some point in the season once his numbers become inflated.

So...

Chavez - sucked before for every year except for in Oakland
Hendriks - sucked before for every year except this past in Toronto which is explained away by a new fitness regime.

Don't you think on the one hand you're criticizing a player's past performance while on the other explaining it away?  Doesn't Chavez deserve the same treatment for the changes he's noted to have made to his pitching?

 

[bustaheims]

Also, being drawn to a pitcher's ability throws strikes is somehow a bad thing? That's kind of an essential part of what pitchers are supposed to do!

 

[Kin]

I wasn't aware that Chavez made any changes to his mechanics or regime that resulted in him putting up better numbers as of late. Still, Hendriks put up better numbers this year in a more hitter friendly division.

He put up "better" numbers as a 4th option short reliever. It's not exactly apples to apples.