Jaromir Jagr

[Kin]

Just something I was thinking about when I was looking over Jaromir Jagr's numbers. Jagr is one of the very few players in the NHL who will miss roughly two full NHL seasons to the three NHL lockouts. The reason it jumped out at me was because of where Jagr is on the all-time list of NHL points leaders and where he very well might be absent any labour shortages.

Right now, Jagr ranks 8th all time with 1671 points in 1378 games, a PPG average that's only bettered among the top 25 scorers by Dionne, Lemieux and Gretzky. So if we give him the 150 games he missed due to lockouts, where would he rank? Well, assuming he'd score in those games at his career ppg average(not entirely unfair as two of his top 3 point totals of all time were in the years after a lockout) he'd be at 1854 points, good for third all-time behind only Messier and Gretzky.

That doesn't even take into account three years in the KHL, absent which he'd almost certainly be firmly in the #2 spot with well over 2000 points. I know it's not exactly news to point out that Jagr is a great scorer or anything but, all things considered, I think he probably now has to be talked about as being really only behind Gretzky and Lemieux as probably the third best offensive player to ever play.

 

[drummond]

Just something I was thinking about when I was looking over Jaromir Jagr's numbers. Jagr is one of the very few players in the NHL who will miss roughly two full NHL seasons to the three NHL lockouts. The reason it jumped out at me was because of where Jagr is on the all-time list of NHL points leaders and where he very well might be absent any labour shortages.

Right now, Jagr ranks 8th all time with 1671 points in 1378 games, a PPG average that's only bettered among the top 25 scorers by Dionne, Lemieux and Gretzky. So if we give him the 150 games he missed due to lockouts, where would he rank? Well, assuming he'd score in those games at his career ppg average(not entirely unfair as two of his top 3 point totals of all time were in the years after a lockout) he'd be at 1854 points, good for third all-time behind only Messier and Gretzky.

That doesn't even take into account three years in the KHL, absent which he'd almost certainly be firmly in the #2 spot with well over 2000 points. I know it's not exactly news to point out that Jagr is a great scorer or anything but, all things considered, I think he probably now has to be talked about as being really only behind Gretzky and Lemieux as probably the third best offensive player to ever play.

Where would he end scoring-wise is favourite discussion theme here in the Czech Republic. However, as Jagr said repeatedly if he had not gone to Russia his career would have most probably ended anyway. He was quite burned out as a player and Russia gave him a new kick, new motivation and re-energized him. No matter how odd it sounds he stresses that aspect of his career again and again.

The lockouts had similar affect, playing for his home town Kladno or in general playing in the Czech Republic where he is an undisputable icon gave him always tons of energy, kind of morale boost, motivation to work harder and harder. During last lockout it happend several times that he received minutes long standing ovations in opposition rinks and arenas even though his goals/production was killing home team. Nevertheless people endlessly cheered. He just stood there and absorbed it all.

So back to your argument, sure the lockouts and KHL episode took some points from his totals, the qustion is, if not, would he be still playing (this year but also last year in Philly). I believe that he would not. Just remeber after Washington/Rangers years almost nobody wanted him. Eventually he would have found a NHL suitor, but for how long.

My favourite point is how much he would have scored if he had played in 80?s and 90?s. He catched few years of high scoring era, but most of his time he played in trap era... Even more amusing argument.

Anyway, you are right and everybody in the Czech Republic would agree with you that he is best scoring talent ever behind Gretzky and Lemieux. He is a living legend over here.

 

[Kin]

Where would he end scoring-wise is favourite discussion theme here in the Czech Republic. However, as Jagr said repeatedly if he had not gone to Russia his career would have most probably ended anyway. He was quite burned out as a player and Russia gave him a new kick, new motivation and re-energized him. No matter how odd it sounds he stresses that aspect of his career again and again.

I think that's kind of contradicted, though, by something you say later on when you say that "nobody wanted him after his (New York) days". The way I remember that off-season, Jagr looked hard for a NHL team and, as you say, only got offers at a price he liked from teams(or possibly a team, I remember for sure about the Oilers). It's not like he signed in Russia on July 1st, he seemed to really want to sign with a NHL club that summer so I can't buy that it was Russia or retirement for him.

So back to your argument, sure the lockouts and KHL episode took some points from his totals, the qustion is, if not, would he be still playing (this year but also last year in Philly). I believe that he would not. Just remeber after Washington/Rangers years almost nobody wanted him. Eventually he would have found a NHL suitor, but for how long.

That's genuinely not how I remember things. We talked about New York, where it seemed like money/the right team was the bigger obstacle than anyone wanting him and I definitely think that's not the case re: Washington. I can say for certain that tons of people wanted him as a Leaf back then but the sticking point was his contract. I do think a line should be drawn between "nobody wanted him" and "nobody wanted him at the price he wanted/was owed".

I don't think, at either time, anyone doubted his abilities, just his cost.

Anyways, my point wasn't so much about the specifics of why he signed in Russia or the effect, if any, of playing in the Czech republic, really just trying to put his point totals in the context of the odd twists and turns of his career. It's good to hear he's regarded as such where he comes from and I would hope the opinion spreads a little more over here.

 

[dappleganger]

I think without a doubt Jagr isn't going to get the respect he deserves because of the way his career played out. He probably is the greatest scoring player behind only Gretzky and Lemiuex. (I'd put him above Dionne)

I wonder if he wishes he would have done things differently.

 

[hap_leaf]

He is an absolute inspiration for his accomplishments and for playing at this high level at this age.
He says his body feels great and after the game told reporters he gets stronger as the game goes on and would like to play another game right after!

Personally, I have always placed him right behind Gretz and Mario as the best players I have ever witnessed.  Lockouts and what ifs aside, he has commanded the game in such ways only those two did it better.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I'd have to put Peter Forsberg up there with Jagr right behind Gretz and Lemeiux as the best players I've ever witnessed.

Unfortunately, Forsberg's career was marred by injuries and the part where he dominated was during the clutch and grab era so his point totals were definitely affected.  But when he played, he was nearly unstoppable to the same extent Jagr was.  So strong, yet so skilled.

 

[Kin]

The guy who probably merits some consideration in that mix as well is Bobby Hull. He scored 604 goals by the age of 32 before heading for the WHA. If he stays in the NHL he probably scores 800+ goals.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Jagr ties Gordie Howe's NHL record with his 121st game-winning goal...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jagr-ties-howes-record-devils-top-kings-in-ot/

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Him and Selanne sure are something.  Can't believe Jagr is still putting up points.

 

[Peter D.]

In the last 30 years or so, I'd put Jagr behind only Gretzky and Lemieux.  He's incredible, and it's sad to see his career set to end.   

It's unfortunate he decided to spend a few seasons in the KHL, because he would likely be second in all-time scoring right now.

 

[Rebel_1812]

In the last 30 years or so, I'd put Jagr behind only Gretzky and Lemieux.  He's incredible, and it's sad to see his career set to end.   

It's unfortunate he decided to spend a few seasons in the KHL, because he would likely be second in all-time scoring right now.

I think he cares more about the extra millions in his bank account then some stats feat.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

In the last 30 years or so, I'd put Jagr behind only Gretzky and Lemieux.  He's incredible, and it's sad to see his career set to end.   

It's unfortunate he decided to spend a few seasons in the KHL, because he would likely be second in all-time scoring right now.

I think he cares more about the extra millions in his bank account then some stats feat.

If he cared more about the millions would he not of done a longer victory tour in Russia? Surely he'd still be commanding top dollar over there.

I use to be real sour on Jagr but since his return I've been nothing but impressed with his work ethic and how much he seems to enjoy playing hockey. He'd be an excellent mentor to many young players in this league.

 

[drummond]

To put it simply: the older Jagr gets the more likeable he is. It is almost unknown in North America, but he is doing lots of charitable work back home and most importantly he saved his hometown hockey team of Kladno from bankruptcy.

This is kind of aspect of the personality which may not be easily comprehensible for you, but especially in countries of former Eastern Block many hockey players never come back as they stay in North America, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but if a player does not turn back on his native town/country it makes him very special. This is what makes Jagr (or for example Reichel) very special and almost immortal in their home towns.

He is also a huge inspiration for younger generation. Tomas Hertl of San Jose Sharks who leads rookies in scoring grew up idolizing Jagr.

 

[Rebel_1812]

To put it simply: the older Jagr gets the more likeable he is. It is almost unknown in North America, but he is doing lots of charitable work back home and most importantly he saved his hometown hockey team of Kladno from bankruptcy.

This is kind of aspect of the personality which may not be easily comprehensible for you, but especially in countries of former Eastern Block many hockey players never come back as they stay in North America, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but if a player does not turn back on his native town/country it makes him very special. This is what makes Jagr (or for example Reichel) very special and almost immortal in their home towns.

He is also a huge inspiration for younger generation. Tomas Hertl of San Jose Sharks who leads rookies in scoring grew up idolizing Jagr.

I actually prefer it when people immigrate to a place and view it as their new home; as oppose to some place to make money.

 

[L K]

To put it simply: the older Jagr gets the more likeable he is. It is almost unknown in North America, but he is doing lots of charitable work back home and most importantly he saved his hometown hockey team of Kladno from bankruptcy.

This is kind of aspect of the personality which may not be easily comprehensible for you, but especially in countries of former Eastern Block many hockey players never come back as they stay in North America, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but if a player does not turn back on his native town/country it makes him very special. This is what makes Jagr (or for example Reichel) very special and almost immortal in their home towns.

He is also a huge inspiration for younger generation. Tomas Hertl of San Jose Sharks who leads rookies in scoring grew up idolizing Jagr.

I actually prefer it when people immigrate to a place and view it as their new home; as oppose to some place to make money.

That is a completely ridiculous expectation.  Not to mention that there is a big difference between immigration and a work visa.

 

[drummond]

To put it simply: the older Jagr gets the more likeable he is. It is almost unknown in North America, but he is doing lots of charitable work back home and most importantly he saved his hometown hockey team of Kladno from bankruptcy.

This is kind of aspect of the personality which may not be easily comprehensible for you, but especially in countries of former Eastern Block many hockey players never come back as they stay in North America, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but if a player does not turn back on his native town/country it makes him very special. This is what makes Jagr (or for example Reichel) very special and almost immortal in their home towns.

He is also a huge inspiration for younger generation. Tomas Hertl of San Jose Sharks who leads rookies in scoring grew up idolizing Jagr.

I actually prefer it when people immigrate to a place and view it as their new home; as oppose to some place to make money.

Since the fall of Berlin Wall nobody has been immigrating, people just take the opportunity to seek jobs all around the world. I spent a year in Sweden, 5 years in Canada and since 2010 I have been working in Norway. Company I work for sent me in those countries and it has never crossed my mind to consider myself an immigrant. Just a foreign employee.

What I was reffering to is the fact that you should not forget where your roots are, where did you learn all the things (in case of Jagr hockey) and if you can it is nice if you give something back.

 

[hockeyfan1]

To put it simply: the older Jagr gets the more likeable he is. It is almost unknown in North America, but he is doing lots of charitable work back home and most importantly he saved his hometown hockey team of Kladno from bankruptcy.

This is kind of aspect of the personality which may not be easily comprehensible for you, but especially in countries of former Eastern Block many hockey players never come back as they stay in North America, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but if a player does not turn back on his native town/country it makes him very special. This is what makes Jagr (or for example Reichel) very special and almost immortal in their home towns.

He is also a huge inspiration for younger generation. Tomas Hertl of San Jose Sharks who leads rookies in scoring grew up idolizing Jagr.

I actually prefer it when people immigrate to a place and view it as their new home; as oppose to some place to make money.

Since the fall of Berlin Wall nobody has been immigrating, people just take the opportunity to seek jobs all around the world. I spent a year in Sweden, 5 years in Canada and since 2010 I have been working in Norway. Company I work for sent me in those countries and it has never crossed my mind to consider myself an immigrant. Just a foreign employee.

What I was reffering to is the fact that you should not forget where your roots are, where did you learn all the things (in case of Jagr hockey) and if you can it is nice if you give something back.

Exactly.  I, too, believe one should never forget their roots.  The people of your culture, namely the Italians of Toronto, never forgot their roots, something passed on from generation to generation.

 

[Jalili]

To put it simply: the older Jagr gets the more likeable he is. It is almost unknown in North America, but he is doing lots of charitable work back home and most importantly he saved his hometown hockey team of Kladno from bankruptcy.

This is kind of aspect of the personality which may not be easily comprehensible for you, but especially in countries of former Eastern Block many hockey players never come back as they stay in North America, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but if a player does not turn back on his native town/country it makes him very special. This is what makes Jagr (or for example Reichel) very special and almost immortal in their home towns.

He is also a huge inspiration for younger generation. Tomas Hertl of San Jose Sharks who leads rookies in scoring grew up idolizing Jagr.

That is very respectable.

I've grown to appreciate Jagr a lot more. I read somewhere that these days he's training extremely hard to still play as a 40-something year old. There's a video of him doing his training on youtube, kind of neat to see him as a grizzled old vet strapping weights to his ankles and stuff.

The way he's stepped up for NJ in the absence of Kovy is also admirable.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Jagr with his 692nd goal, tying Steve Yzerman for 8th on the NHL all-time scoring list...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jagr-ties-yzermin-on-all-time-scoring-list-in-win/

 

[hockeyfan1]

Jagr moves up NHL scoring list ladder -- scoring goal # 693 -- which leaves him one point behind Messier in the #7 spot, and six behind Lemieux.

Source:  THN