Of Nonis, Babcock & who the heck is going to be running this asylum on draft day

[ZBBM]

Now that deadline day has come and gone, maybe we can turn our attention to the postseason (and I don't mean playoffs).

Will Nonis get canned?

Will Babcock get hired?

Who, really, is going to helm the draft?

I strongly feel Nonis doesn't deserve to stay in this job, but I have no strong feeling about whether he will.  There's always the traditional cashiering opp on the day after this wretched season ends.  If Shanahan keeps him past then, Nonis' future may depend on whether The Chin comes here and who that chin wants to work with.  Believe me, they are not getting Babcock if Babcock doesn't feel comfortable with whoever the GM is.

If DET goes deep in the playoffs, the timeline gets compressed if they want to have everything in place by the draft.  And in any event, I wonder who will ultimately be calling the shots there.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

No way Nonis is back.  I think he's still here now just because he has experience.

I don't think Babcock comes to Toronto.  What I think is more interesting is San Jose.  What if they miss the playoffs this year and there's a house cleaning?  What would you think about Doug Wilson and Todd McLellan coming on as GM and coach?  I'm starting to quietly cheer against the Sharks, just in case. 

 

[Kin]

I've felt pretty good about the drafts the team has had since Nonis has been with the club so I'm not overly concerned about him staying in his current position. I think that if Babcock would come here it would basically be with enough authority over personnel that he'd be de facto running the draft even if someone was given the honoriffic of GM.

 

[L K]

I think a bigger question might be, should the Leafs hand the reigns to Babcock.  We know he's a great coach, but is he actually a good GM?    Decisions on player personnel is going to have to be a huge selling point of convincing any quality coach to sit through a rebuild in Toronto.

 

[cw]

I think Babcock knows something like this is very probably true for this franchise:
Sportsnet Opinion: Maple Leafs in for long rebuild after slow deadline

Babcock is not coming.

That was a part of what I have found discouraging and kind of appalling about this current situation. And we saw it reinforced by this tear down: they've got some real albatrosses of contracts that are not going to be easy to shed (they had weeks before the deadline to do so - not just today). And that's why I think Nonis should be gone before the draft:
a) because of the number and size of bad contracts he's done
b) because he failed to get much done to alleviate them aside from getting MLSE to write off nearly $30 mil for his mistake signing Clarkson (doesn't take much GM hockey talent to get MLSE to spend $)

I think it's time someone less attached to the bad contracts we have in place stepped in to try to dispose of them - to try to get some additional assets from this deeper draft. I believe they'll have a stronger will with no strings to their reputation for the existing contracts and therefore, a better chance of shedding them.

That's the part of waking up to this nightmare that's arguably worse than what JFJ left: these contracts are a second burden - beyond rebuilding the talent. And that second burden can hamper being able to rebuild because you cannot shed the talent on your roster for many picks very quickly as we saw today.

I think it's time to move on now - even if it's with someone interim.

There's no practical time to substantially change the scouting staff between now and the draft and I don't think they've performed as poorly as the GM doing the contracts so the new/interim GM can work with the incumbents - as Nonis would  anyway.

 

[Kin]

I think Babcock knows something like this is very probably true for this franchise:
Sportsnet Opinion: Maple Leafs in for long rebuild after slow deadline

Babcock is not coming.

Even if what that article says is true, and I think they overestimate what the Deadline was ever going to realistically mean to the team, I still don't see why that would mean Babcock wouldn't come. Right now the Leafs job would have this going for it:

1) It would probably be tremendously lucrative financially to someone like Babcock
2) If the team's committed to a genuine rebuild that means it would come with lots of job security
3) It very well could come with an unprecedented level of personnel input
4) It would present essentially the one challenge Babcock hasn't faced and completed in his time as a NHL coach

Now, I don't think the chances of Babcock coming are super high but I genuinely think that if what Babcock wanted was to just parachute into a good situation and try and take a team to the next level he'd already be re-signed in Detroit. I mean, say I'm wrong and he just wants to go somewhere where the team is already mainly built and things look bright down the immediate road...where will he go? Pittsburgh might fire their head coach if they get bounced early, Boston maybe...but most coaches have to choose to go into bad situations and I tend to think that if you're doing that anyway you might as well earn the biggest paycheck you can.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think Babcock knows something like this is very probably true for this franchise:
Sportsnet Opinion: Maple Leafs in for long rebuild after slow deadline

Babcock is not coming.

That was a part of what I have found discouraging and kind of appalling about this current situation. And we saw it reinforced by this tear down: they've got some real albatrosses of contracts that are not going to be easy to shed (they had weeks before the deadline to do so - not just today).

Those longer deals are more difficult to trade in-season than in the off-season.  They don't really have any albatross contracts that would be too difficult to deal.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I think Babcock knows something like this is very probably true for this franchise:
Sportsnet Opinion: Maple Leafs in for long rebuild after slow deadline

Babcock is not coming.

That was a part of what I have found discouraging and kind of appalling about this current situation. And we saw it reinforced by this tear down: they've got some real albatrosses of contracts that are not going to be easy to shed (they had weeks before the deadline to do so - not just today).

Those longer deals are more difficult to trade in-season than in the off-season.  They don't really have any albatross contracts that would be too difficult to deal.

I'm hopeful that some trade deadline talks at least laid the groundwork for some off-season trades.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think Babcock knows something like this is very probably true for this franchise:
Sportsnet Opinion: Maple Leafs in for long rebuild after slow deadline

Babcock is not coming.

That was a part of what I have found discouraging and kind of appalling about this current situation. And we saw it reinforced by this tear down: they've got some real albatrosses of contracts that are not going to be easy to shed (they had weeks before the deadline to do so - not just today).

Those longer deals are more difficult to trade in-season than in the off-season.  They don't really have any albatross contracts that would be too difficult to deal.

I'm hopeful that some trade deadline talks at least laid the groundwork for some off-season trades.

And that's with me assuming they even made a serious effort to try to move Kessel, which I'm not convinced they did.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

They don't really have any albatross contracts that would be too difficult to deal.

Detroit's pretty much demanding that we take one of the worst contracts in the league back AND eat money on Phaneuf's deal. Whatever you think of Dion, that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of his contract.

 

[Kin]

They don't really have any albatross contracts that would be too difficult to deal.

Detroit's pretty much demanding that we take one of the worst contracts in the league back AND eat money on Phaneuf's deal. Whatever you think of Dion, that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of his contract.

Maybe but that might have been within the context of the Leafs trying to get a first in a deep draft and the team's best prospect in return. If the Leafs were just offering him up for nothing things might be very different which, to be fair, isn't something you could say about your real albatross deals like Clarkson.

 

[Peter D.]

If I'm the Leafs and are serious about a long-term rebuild, I hand Babcock a 10-year offer worth $50 million and tell him we want you to see this thing right through, from beginning to finish.  Force his hand with an offer that is too good to pass.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Maybe but that might have been within the context of the Leafs trying to get a first in a deep draft and the team's best prospect in return. If the Leafs were just offering him up for nothing things might be very different which, to be fair, isn't something you could say about your real albatross deals like Clarkson.

That's true, but I fully expect that in a Phaneuf deal somebody like Weiss is pretty much going to have to be included to make it work. So when it comes time to revisit this in the offseason I would figure it's going to be the Leafs lowering their trade demands more than the Wings.

And I really don't know what would happen if the Leafs just offered Phaneuf up for free. I'm not in the group that thinks Dion is some sort of bottom-pairing pylon out there, but he's about to turn 30 and his play is already slipping. Those last 3 or 4 years on his contract could reach that albatross level, and that's obviously why teams are pretty cautious about taking him on.

 

[Kin]

That's true, but I fully expect that in a Phaneuf deal somebody like Weiss is pretty much going to have to be included to make it work. So when it comes time to revisit this in the offseason I would figure it's going to be the Leafs lowering their trade demands more than the Wings.

I really think we should attribute most of what we saw with the Red Wings yesterday to the reality of trying to make a big deal at the deadline.  Detroit's capped out so they had to come back to the Leafs saying "We're interested in Phaneuf but we can't absorb his salary so you'd need to take back Weiss" and then the Leafs shot the moon on what that would mean for them prospect wise and they missed.

I really don't think that reflects too much on what he's worth to a team with cap space. Dealing him at the draft is going to be a whole different ball game where you're trying to sell teams on something entirely different. The return might not be great but I really think that the money the Leafs will have to take back is going to be limited to the difference between what Phaneuf's cap hit is and what teams think it should be and like you said, the guy's not a 3rd pairing type.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

What's the chance that Babcock agrees to a two year deal either with Detroit or somewhere else this summer with a view to joining the Leafs halfway through the rebuild?

 

[Kin]

What's the chance that Babcock agrees to a two year deal either with Detroit or somewhere else this summer with a view to joining the Leafs halfway through the rebuild?

Why would he do that?

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

What's the chance that Babcock agrees to a two year deal either with Detroit or somewhere else this summer with a view to joining the Leafs halfway through the rebuild?

Why would he do that?

If he really wanted the Leafs job but at some stage in the future rather than now.

 

[Kin]

If he really wanted the Leafs job but at some stage in the future rather than now.

That's just restating the premise. Why would he want that? If he wanted to coach the Leafs two years from now why wouldn't he want to have a major voice in where they are two years from now?

 

[jdh1]

I believe the Leafs have to be patient in unloading these big contracts.What's the use of taking bad contracts back,plus taking salary back.It all amounts to the same thing.

There will be suiters for these players in time.There's talent there that has to be smartly parted with.
They must concentrate on drafting and developing to work their way out.

And yes Nonis must go.

 

[cw]

I think Babcock knows something like this is very probably true for this franchise:
Sportsnet Opinion: Maple Leafs in for long rebuild after slow deadline

Babcock is not coming.

That was a part of what I have found discouraging and kind of appalling about this current situation. And we saw it reinforced by this tear down: they've got some real albatrosses of contracts that are not going to be easy to shed (they had weeks before the deadline to do so - not just today).

Those longer deals are more difficult to trade in-season than in the off-season.  They don't really have any albatross contracts that would be too difficult to deal.

I don't agree. I think Phaneuf's is a bit of a boat anchor of a deal. To move him, they'll probably have to eat $2 mil/yr for the life of the deal (six years) or a substantially bad contract coming back.

I don't think Kessel (if he's going to move), Lupul or probably Bozak moves straight up (without eating some contract in some fashion).  Ditto for Gardiner right now.

Let's say you elect to live with Gardiner & Kessel for now. Phaneuf, Lupul & Bozak could cost up to $4mil/yr cap space to move.

Maybe they just have to hold their noses on some of these deals and jettison them when they're closer to end of their term. The upside is they kind of guarantee you'll annually be in a decent draft position because you don't have to worry about this group winning anything ...