Ontario vs. The World

[Kin]

So, in my on-going attempt to throw the occasional thread out there to jump start some discussion Canada's recent domination at the world cup and Oympics got me thinking about just how big the talent differential seems to be between Canada and the world right now. In fact, it's kind of taken some of the luster off of these international tournaments for me because it seems like the only real acceptable result is gold. Anything else seems like an upset.

So I got to thinking, how could you spice up these tournaments and evened it out a little. So I got to thinking about what would happen if you sent teams by province instead of as a nation. Anyways, if you did, this is what Team Ontario might look like(for simplicities sake, I just used a player's birthplace):

Perry-Tavares-Seguin
Nash-Stamkos-Giroux
Couture-Monahan-Spezza
Carter-Duchene-McDavid
Staal

Doughty-Muzzin
Pietrangelo-Subban
Burns-Giordano
Ekblad

Smith
Mason

I mean, pretty good, right? There are some tough cuts up front and on that blue line. There is a notable weakness in goal though so it got me thinking, would a team from a province with better goaltending stack up? Here's Team BC, featuring The Best Goalie in the World?:

Benn-Johansen-Ladd
Lucic-Turris-Kane
Santorelli-Nugent-Hopkins-Brouwer
Connolly-Horcoff-Lazar
MacMillan

Weber-Hamhuis
Seabrook-Barrie
Alzner-Rielly
Schultz

Price
Hammond

Again, not bad. Heck of a top line. Although it has to be said you're kind of reaching near the bottom for forwards there. Ontario's forward depth though seems like it would really carry the day. So how about Ontario's traditional rivals? Here's team Quebec:

St. Louis-Bergeron-Tanguay
Brassard-Huberdeau-Parenteau
Burrows-Stastny-Pominville
Drouin-Ribeiro-Desharnais
Lecavalier

Letang-Beauchemin
Vlasic-Savard
Despres-Robidas
Demers

Luongo
Crawford

There's definitely the goaltending and the defense looks better than I expected. Giving them Stastny is obviously a stretch but I did feel bound by the rules I'd stuck with.

Anyways, I was in the middle of putting together a team Alberta when something dawned on me...how much better a tournament would a Canada only tournament like this be than the World Cup? How much more interesting would it be? How is it that some bank or Tim Horton's or Canadian Tire can't throw money at this and make it happen?

Anyways, ideas? Suggestions? Did I make notable errors? Did I miss how good team Manitoba would be?

 

[ZBBM]

What about Team PEI?  Anne Shirley would have to be in goal, yes, but otherwise it would be monster.

 

[Kin]

What about Team PEI?  Anne Shirley would have to be in goal, yes, but otherwise it would be monster.

Running up the score on them would be justified payback for all of the nonsense they put on CBC over the years.

 

[brothert]

I think threads like these are funny.  Nagano seems such a distant memory.  From "Hockey Crisis" to "No Competition to play"  And still the world is oblivious to the sport as it was back then.

 

[Kin]

I think threads like these are funny.  Nagano seems such a distant memory.  From "Hockey Crisis" to "No Competition to play"  And still the world is oblivious to the sport as it was back then.

It's not that there's no competition. Team USA or Team Sweden or Team Russia are all better than really any team up there with the possible exception of team Ontario. It's just that it's undeniable that Canada has the ability to put together the best team and, honestly, could probably put together the best two teams.

Any team, no matter how good, can lose in a short tournament but I really don't expect to see another tournament for a while where I say, "Man that other team was just better than Canada".

 

[ZBBM]

What about Team PEI?  Anne Shirley would have to be in goal, yes, but otherwise it would be monster.

Running up the score on them would be justified payback for all of the nonsense they put on CBC over the years.

Oooooh.  My daughters wouldn't like you.  We made the pilgrimage once.  It's damned cold there in late October.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

These are fun teams to make line-ups out of but I don't think we ever actually see it implemented. Definitely not at the international level. Why would Hockey Canada ever agree to it? A B-team type squad would be the only thing I could see them trying, but even that I think the other nations wouldn't be on board.

Maybe a Canada Cup type tournament like you suggested but in that case I don't know if the players would care enough to get it going. But that would be awesome to see. I also don't know if you'd have enough teams. Ontario, Quebec, and BC would for sure be able to field a competitive line-up. Although like you said I think Ontario definitely has the big edge. You'd probably have to make it Ontario, Canada West (BC, AB, MB) and Canada East (Quebec, NB, NS, PEI). As good as Crosby is I don't know if he could keep Team Nova Scotia afloat. That's a pretty small tournament though, even if you made it North America and threw the US in there.

 

[Kin]

Well, here's my idea. You'd have two divisions. One with the fairly legit teams(Ontario, Alberta, Saskatechewan, BC, Quebec, Manitoba) and then one with the less legit teams(The Maritimes and the Territories). Best three from the first division go straight to the Semis while the winner of the second division plays the fourth place team in the first division for that last spot.

That way the smaller provincial teams could theoretically win it but wouldn't get embarrassed and Nova Scotia vs. Alberta might be a legit game. I'm sure you'd say that Saskatchewan isn't on the level of Ontario, sure, but Slovakia isn't on the level of Canada either.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

No tournament could contain this level of heart.  Would be a cycle of never-ending clutch goals.

 

[Kin]

No tournament could contain this level of heart.  Would be a cycle of never-ending clutch goals.

And the suits being worn on their way into the arena? Forget about it.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Well, here's my idea. You'd have two divisions. One with the fairly legit teams(Ontario, Alberta, Saskatechewan, BC, Quebec, Manitoba) and then one with the less legit teams(The Maritimes and the Territories). Best three from the first division go straight to the Semis while the winner of the second division plays the fourth place team in the first division for that last spot.

That way the smaller provincial teams could theoretically win it but wouldn't get embarrassed and Nova Scotia vs. Alberta might be a legit game. I'm sure you'd say that Saskatchewan isn't on the level of Ontario, sure, but Slovakia isn't on the level of Canada either.

Looking through some of their players, Saskatechewan and Alberta would be a little better represented then I thought. Even Manitoba could boast Toews, Keith, Sharp, Zajac, Stone, and Steen (under the Stastny-clause). They could at least fill our their line-up with almost-all NHLers.

The Maritimes and the Territories would mostly be all AHL/ECHL/amateurs though. Nova Scotia has Crosby, MacKinnon, Killorn, Marchand, Sheppard, Sill, MacDonald. PEI has Brad Richards, McQuaid, and Ott. New Brunswick would have Jake Allen in net. I don't think you could make separate teams from those places. So I think the big question would be how do you address them? Call it a Leftovers team and combine those guys with players who didn't make the cut from the other provinces? Add them all to Quebec? Tell Crosby that he's won enough already and to take some time off for himself?

 

[Kin]

The Maritimes and the Territories would mostly be all AHL/ECHL/amateurs though. Nova Scotia has Crosby, MacKinnon, Killorn, Marchand, Sheppard, Sill, MacDonald. PEI has Brad Richards, McQuaid, and Ott. New Brunswick would have Jake Allen in net. I don't think you could make separate teams from those places. So I think the big question would be how do you address them? Call it a Leftovers team and combine those guys with players who didn't make the cut from the other provinces? Add them all to Quebec? Tell Crosby that he's won enough already and to take some time off for himself?

You're right that PEI couldn't be a legit team against Ontario but my thinking is they'd only play the other maritimes/territories teams. Basically the idea is sort of similar to how the IIHF decides what second-tier countries get into the WC's.

Those teams would all be in the separate division, only playing each other and with the eventual winner getting into a play-in against #4 from the first Division for that last semi-final spot. Yes, that would be a lopsided game most years but it wouldn't be much worse than the Canada/Norway or Russia/Belarus games we have to watch every WC.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

You're right that PEI couldn't be a legit team against Ontario but my thinking is they'd only play the other maritimes/territories teams. Basically the idea is sort of similar to how the IIHF decides what second-tier countries get into the WC's.

Those teams would all be in the separate division, only playing each other and with the eventual winner getting into a play-in against #4 from the first Division for that last semi-final spot. Yes, that would be a lopsided game most years but it wouldn't be much worse than the Canada/Norway or Russia/Belarus games we have to watch every WC.

That's fair. I'd definitely be intrigued to see how a tournament like that would play out, but I would imagine that one of the priorities the NHL or whoever is organizing it would have would be to make sure all the teams are as even as possible and to avoid those Canada/Norway or Russia/Belarus games that everybody hates. We're of course already seeing them try to do something like that with the World Cup. I'd also wonder how the Crosby factor plays into this. Would they want the biggest name in the sport playing in the secondary tournament/group? Would he bring some more viewers to those games or would his talents be wasted there? Him and MacKinnon alone should guarantee that Nova Scotia is the team coming out of that group.

 

[Peter D.]

I was reading this and wondered where Crosby and MacKinnon were.  Haha.  As CTB suggests, they alone could carry Team Nova Scotia.

As for the question as to putting a tournament like this together.  I wondered, if the NHL wanted to continue growing the game in the U.S., would a tournament work with U.S. teams based on regions or states? 

 

[Kin]

That's fair. I'd definitely be intrigued to see how a tournament like that would play out, but I would imagine that one of the priorities the NHL or whoever is organizing it would have would be to make sure all the teams are as even as possible and to avoid those Canada/Norway or Russia/Belarus games that everybody hates. We're of course already seeing them try to do something like that with the World Cup.

Well, and excuse me if this is a bit of a dead horse I'm flogging, but that's one of the reasons why I disagree so much with the NHL on the subject of parity being a fundamentally good thing. Yes, what the NHL is doing with the World Cup means we won't see too many 10-0 games, sure, but it also means no meaningful, out of nowhere upsets. IF the "let's never have a lopsided game" mentality had root you'd never have the Miracle on Ice. Who knows, maybe one year PEI would have a hot goalie?

I'd also wonder how the Crosby factor plays into this. Would they want the biggest name in the sport playing in the secondary tournament/group? Would he bring some more viewers to those games or would his talents be wasted there? Him and MacKinnon alone should guarantee that Nova Scotia is the team coming out of that group.

For me it'd be the former. It's one of those great sports what ifs like "What if the best College Football team played the worst NFL team" or "What if you took an Average High school basketball team and gave them Lebron for a game."

What if Sid Crosby played a game against a team of the best former junior players/semi-pros/european pros that New Brunswick had to offer? Would he score on every shift? I'd watch.