The Selke finalists are announced...

[Kin]

And I'm unhappy about it. Seriously. What does Jay McClement have to do? Score 30 goals?

Anyways, Bergeron, Datsyuk and Toews

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=670684&navid=nhl:topheads

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I think part of the issue is McClement has pretty poor possession stats at even strength.

 

[Kin]

I think part of the issue is McClement has pretty poor possession stats at even strength.

Meaning Corsi? Because that seems to be pretty common with forwards who are used almost exclusively for their defensive ability.

 

[Corn Flake]

Toes should win. He should have been a Hart nominee.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I think part of the issue is McClement has pretty poor possession stats at even strength.

Meaning Corsi? Because that seems to be pretty common with forwards who are used almost exclusively for their defensive ability.

Yeah, amongst a couple of other advance stats, the players above are often given the same defensive assignments as McClement at ES, the difference being that they shut other teams down to such an extent that they are much more successful at generating offensive opportunity with the puck and spend more time in the opposite zone due to having more skill with the puck on their stick.

McClement is probably the best penalty killer of the bunch, I'd have liked to see him nominated too.

 

[Kin]

I think part of the issue is McClement has pretty poor possession stats at even strength.

Meaning Corsi? Because that seems to be pretty common with forwards who are used almost exclusively for their defensive ability.

Yeah, amongst a couple of other advance stats, the players above are often given the same defensive assignments as McClement at ES, the difference being that they shut other teams down to such an extent that they are much more successful at generating offensive opportunity with the puck and spend more time in the opposite zone due to having more skill with the puck on their stick.

I don't agree. I think their stronger numbers that you're talking about have nothing to do with shutting the other team down more than McClement does but rather that these players are talented both offensively and defensively and are able to generate the sort of offense that he isn't.

Now, you might say that the best of all possible defenses is to have the puck in the other team's zone and that's fair but I don't really think that's a representation of what this award should be about.

 

[hap_leaf]

And I'm unhappy about it. Seriously. What does Jay McClement have to do? Score 30 goals?

Anyways, Bergeron, Datsyuk and Toews

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=670684&navid=nhl:topheads

McClement is a good journeyman who gives a great effort on the PK.  Nobody will remember him as a player blessed with talent after he retires.  And perhaps they should have a trophy for "best unknown guy who is an important player on their team". 

 

[Kin]

McClement is a good journeyman who gives a great effort on the PK.  Nobody will remember him as a player blessed with talent after he retires.  And perhaps they should have a trophy for "best unknown guy who is an important player on their team".

Nobody will remember John Madden as someone blessed with talent either. They'll remember him as someone who was tenacious, hardworking and smart and who translated that into being one of the league's best defensive forwards. You know, like Jay McClement.

 

[hap_leaf]

McClement is a good journeyman who gives a great effort on the PK.  Nobody will remember him as a player blessed with talent after he retires.  And perhaps they should have a trophy for "best unknown guy who is an important player on their team".

Nobody will remember John Madden as someone blessed with talent either. They'll remember him as someone who was tenacious, hardworking and smart and who translated that into being one of the league's best defensive forwards. You know, like Jay McClement.

You're smarter than to compare an average skilled player and a heralded champion.  They share a work ethic, nothing more.

 

[Kin]

You're smarter than to compare an average skilled player and a heralded champion.  They share a work ethic, nothing more.

"A heralded champion"? He was a very good defensive forward on some very good teams. Jay McClement is a very good defensive forward on some not very good teams. I'm comparing apples and oranges that look, taste and smell exactly like apples.

 

[Jalili]

Bergeron baby!!

 

[bustaheims]

"A heralded champion"? He was a very good defensive forward on some very good teams. Jay McClement is a very good defensive forward on some not very good teams. I'm comparing apples and oranges that look, taste and smell exactly like apples.

Seriously. The most significant difference between their respective play on the ice is that Madden had a little more offensive ability - he had a couple 20 goal seasons in his career - though his career high of 43 points isn't exactly worlds away from McClement's 36.

 

[hap_leaf]

You're smarter than to compare an average skilled player and a heralded champion.  They share a work ethic, nothing more.

"A heralded champion"? He was a very good defensive forward on some very good teams. Jay McClement is a very good defensive forward on some not very good teams. I'm comparing apples and oranges that look, taste and smell exactly like apples.

Yeah the part where he held a silver cup over his head 3 times and won the Selke.  And you are right to bring him up as your example.  He was a major part of the championship teams.  McClement will never be more than a useful cog. 

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

I'd be happiest with Jonathan winning it, but I'll sett for Pavel too

 

[moon111]

It would be hard for a player on the current Leafs to win this no matter how well he did.  Selke from Toronto... is that some kind of joke?

 

[Kin]

Yeah the part where he held a silver cup over his head 3 times and won the Selke.  And you are right to bring him up as your example.  He was a major part of the championship teams.  McClement will never be more than a useful cog.

You're the kind of person who thinks that Corey Schwab was a better goalie than Curtis Joseph, huh?

 

[L K]

I'm fine if they keep nominating Datsyuk and Toews every single year.  Just change the title of the award to 'Best Two Way Forward'.  Otherwise, you know, actually nominate guys who are actually the best defensive player in the league instead of just picking the guy who scores 20+ goals while playing good defense.

 

[ZBBM]

You're smarter than to compare an average skilled player and a heralded champion.  They share a work ethic, nothing more.

"A heralded champion"? He was a very good defensive forward on some very good teams. Jay McClement is a very good defensive forward on some not very good teams. I'm comparing apples and oranges that look, taste and smell exactly like apples.

Yeah the part where he held a silver cup over his head 3 times and won the Selke.  And you are right to bring him up as your example.  He was a major part of the championship teams.  McClement will never be more than a useful cog.

A "cog" that did more than anyone to boost the team's PK to 3rd or whatever it was from 27/28/29/30?  Yeah right.

It's absurd that he wasn't nominated.  The herd mentality keeps Datsyuk in there, year in and year out.

 

[Kin]

Toews with the win.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

Toews with the win.

LHF approves!