2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Bill_Berg]

The Leafs 3.60 GAA, 2nd worst in the league, is their worst GAA in the last 33 years
Their top 7 D and 2 goalies are signed up for next year as are most of the forwards. The top 4 D are 33 or more next season signed up for years beyond that.
Not only do they need to acquire players because their prospects are so thin but they have to get rid of some contracts to be able to fit the new players under their cap or roster limits.
With the cap rising so much, the UFA market is going to be thin again.
Out of that rubble, they're supposed to assembled a true Cup contender for Matthews in two years?

Hopefully, he can start the season well after his knee injury to maximize his trade value

It is not just fixing the team. It is Matthews who is on the back 9 of his career. If he is going to be a significant part of a Cup winner, he has to do it soon. I do not see how that is likely with the Leafs. Like poker, you have to know when to fold. It would probably be best for both parties.

My opinion is also that they should fold, but they're not doing that. So they're going to try, well, something. Matthews will probably give it a shot next year, and if they suck again, then trade him at the deadline for two playoff runs. If they don't suck, then he sticks around. It's probably a year by year thing with him for the next two years.

Maybe they're all just waiting to see if they win the draft lottery. Or maybe they pull a rabbit out of someone's ass. It looks grim for sure though.

 

[cabber24]

I don't have as much fault for the core 4 as I do for the players they surrounded them with.

I hate this comment. They could not afford anything else. They even had to give away additional depth/picks for retention and cap dumps. You cannot pay that much to 4 forwards and expect to ice decent depth.

 

[cw]

I hate this comment. They could not afford anything else. They even had to give away additional depth/picks for retention and cap dumps. You cannot pay that much to 4 forwards and expect to ice decent depth.

But this is what you said:

I don't believe in this core. I would be content with a rebuild. I am mad about how much money the core 4 made and how little they delivered. For me, it was Stanley Cup or bust, and we didn't even get out of the second round.

That criticizes the core 4 players, doesn't it?
"They could not afford anything else." is on the GM much more than the players.

Those players contracts were close to being in line with the league and their signing circumstances.
Covid bit the GM's plans - that was part of it that screwed up his financial plan.
But the result was the core 4 didn't have a great goalie, not a great D and not a great bottom 6.
That isn't the fault of the core 4 talent. That is on the GM and the financial circumstances.

When Colorado faced that, they moved Rantanen BUT they got more than a 4th line center back.
When Leafs did it, the UFA market was barren and they got a 4th line center.
I fault management far more for that.

 

[cw]

My opinion is also that they should fold, but they're not doing that. So they're going to try, well, something. Matthews will probably give it a shot next year, and if they suck again, then trade him at the deadline for two playoff runs. If they don't suck, then he sticks around. It's probably a year by year thing with him for the next two years.

Maybe they're all just waiting to see if they win the draft lottery. Or maybe they pull a rabbit out of someone's ass. It looks grim for sure though.

I think you are right. MLSE won't rebuild at this time. Matthews is under contract. So they'll give it a shot for playoff revenue.
I think it drags out to when they can truly contend again.

Draft year
2014 1st round #8 Nylander
2015 1st round #4 Marner
2016 1st round #1 Matthews

That gave them a core that was going to come along together
We probably won't see that again in our lifetime

 

[L K]

Mehta is the Devils GM.

I have a feeling they are going to mess around because we have an incompetent person running the organization

And it's not really so much about Mehta. It's that this AI nonsense is absurd. It's that Pelley is a lying sack of garbage who came in talking about results over jersey sales and the Leafs have done nothing but monetize everything. We are going to dick around with the GM search. That Bérubé isn't fired already is a joke. We signed a handful of fringe college free agents and with a roster that could kill to get some youth have done nothing with any more significant players.

This is the first year in 10 years (pandemic season aside) that I didn't go to a Leafs game. I'm sad at the state of this franchise

This notion of holding off on firing the coach u til the new GM is picked. Who the hell can look at that decision and not see it 100% as being a cheap franchise not wanting to pay for two coaches

 

[Kaberle15]

is Berube still the Leafs coach ? it has being 24hours now, he should be already gone.

 

[mr grieves]

When Colorado faced that, they moved Rantanen BUT they got more than a 4th line center back.
When Leafs did it, the UFA market was barren and they got a 4th line center.
I fault management far more for that.

How in the heck was COL able to move Rantanen in his expiry year?

 

[cw]

How in the heck was COL able to move Rantanen in his expiry year?

Because Rantanen had a limited modified 9 team no trade clause
Here's some of the key reasons why:
In Rantanen's first 3 seasons (age 19, 20 & 21), he put up 122 pts, -32
In Marner's first 3 seasons (age 19, 20 & 21), he put up 224 pts, +21
Rantanen got more ice time and PP time but didn't PK during those years.

 

[Bender]

Mehta is the Devils GM.

I have a feeling they are going to mess around because we have an incompetent person running the organization

And it's not really so much about Mehta. It's that this AI nonsense is absurd. It's that Pelley is a lying sack of garbage who came in talking about results over jersey sales and the Leafs have done nothing but monetize everything. We are going to dick around with the GM search. That Bérubé isn't fired already is a joke. We signed a handful of fringe college free agents and with a roster that could kill to get some youth have done nothing with any more significant players.

This is the first year in 10 years (pandemic season aside) that I didn't go to a Leafs game. I'm sad at the state of this franchise

This notion of holding off on firing the coach u til the new GM is picked. Who the hell can look at that decision and not see it 100% as being a cheap franchise not wanting to pay for two coaches

Once they said he was from the area I knew it was over.

 

[Bender]

But this is what you said:

That criticizes the core 4 players, doesn't it?
"They could not afford anything else." is on the GM much more than the players.

Those players contracts were close to being in line with the league and their signing circumstances.
Covid bit the GM's plans - that was part of it that screwed up his financial plan.
But the result was the core 4 didn't have a great goalie, not a great D and not a great bottom 6.
That isn't the fault of the core 4 talent. That is on the GM and the financial circumstances.

When Colorado faced that, they moved Rantanen BUT they got more than a 4th line center back.
When Leafs did it, the UFA market was barren and they got a 4th line center.
I fault management far more for that.

I'm sorry but both things can be true. None of them got close to McDavid or Draisaitl in terms of playoff production. The Oilers had Stu freaking Skinner as their goalie and went to two cup finals. I'm sorry but we all know how much water you carry for these guys. Not one of them, one time, took the team on their backs and carried the team forward. I agree goaltending has been an Achilles heel and management deserves blame but to say the core 4 don't have much blame in this truly has me at a loss for words to describe how selective that analysis is.

 

[Bender]

I think you are right. MLSE won't rebuild at this time. Matthews is under contract. So they'll give it a shot for playoff revenue.
I think it drags out to when they can truly contend again.

Draft year
2014 1st round #8 Nylander
2015 1st round #4 Marner
2016 1st round #1 Matthews

That gave them a core that was going to come along together
We probably won't see that again in our lifetime

Speak for yourself.

 

[Bender]

Mehta is the Devils GM.

I have a feeling they are going to mess around because we have an incompetent person running the organization

And it's not really so much about Mehta. It's that this AI nonsense is absurd. It's that Pelley is a lying sack of garbage who came in talking about results over jersey sales and the Leafs have done nothing but monetize everything. We are going to dick around with the GM search. That Bérubé isn't fired already is a joke. We signed a handful of fringe college free agents and with a roster that could kill to get some youth have done nothing with any more significant players.

This is the first year in 10 years (pandemic season aside) that I didn't go to a Leafs game. I'm sad at the state of this franchise

This notion of holding off on firing the coach u til the new GM is picked. Who the hell can look at that decision and not see it 100% as being a cheap franchise not wanting to pay for two coaches

The whole not wanting to pay two coaches is truly asinine when you consider how much dead money is on the Blue Jays payroll at the moment. They could easily absorb the hit. It's so short-sighted to think that cutting costs are a driving factor when a single playoff game rakes in $10M. I understand the need to be efficient but why retain a coach and staff that was a big difference between that playoff revenue and where they are now?

If I don't see some real change coming next year I see myself as a passive fan until they bite the bullet and do a rebuild and really do some reconciling with the fans that have been there all these years.

 

[Arn]

One more measly loss and they’d have been third last.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I don't see a problem with not firing Berube at this point. If he's coach to start next season, that's different.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't see a problem with not firing Berube at this point. If he's coach to start next season, that's different.

The problem is expecting the new GM and/or POHO to make one of their first moves firing him (because anyone competent is firing him). Take that burden away from prospective hires. Don't make their first major move be a negative one.

 

[dappleganger]

Because Rantanen had a limited modified 9 team no trade clause
Here's some of the key reasons why:
In Rantanen's first 3 seasons (age 19, 20 & 21), he put up 122 pts, -32
In Marner's first 3 seasons (age 19, 20 & 21), he put up 224 pts, +21
Rantanen got more ice time and PP time but didn't PK during those years.

Rantanen's first season was only 9 games so it didn't burn a year of his contract. Rantanen's RFA year he had put up 209 pts. Rantanen also made the All-Star team in his RFA year, Marner did not. Rantanen is also 6'4" - 220 lbs.

It was bad management by the Leafs not the respective players performance that dictated this.

 

[dappleganger]

The whole not wanting to pay two coaches is truly asinine when you consider how much dead money is on the Blue Jays payroll at the moment. They could easily absorb the hit. It's so short-sighted to think that cutting costs are a driving factor when a single playoff game rakes in $10M. I understand the need to be efficient but why retain a coach and staff that was a big difference between that playoff revenue and where they are now?

If I don't see some real change coming next year I see myself as a passive fan until they bite the bullet and do a rebuild and really do some reconciling with the fans that have been there all these years.

I don't think you can compare it. The Jays bring in way more revenue than the Leafs (or at least they are right now). But yeah, The Leafs should have fired the coach if it was the pertinent move. Cost should not have been in the equation.

 

[dappleganger]

I don't see a problem with not firing Berube at this point. If he's coach to start next season, that's different.

Berube should be released. It was obvious to anyone watching the games he could not (or did not) get this team to play the way he wanted them to play. This team played disjointed for the entire season. Treliving didn't give him the players to win but Berube didn't get much out of the players he did have, and I'd argue Berube choice of deployment had something to do with that.

Also, he seemed to have a row with the team's best performing player the entire season.

 

[cabber24]

But this is what you said:

That criticizes the core 4 players, doesn't it?
"They could not afford anything else." is on the GM much more than the players.

Those players contracts were close to being in line with the league and their signing circumstances.
Covid bit the GM's plans - that was part of it that screwed up his financial plan.
But the result was the core 4 didn't have a great goalie, not a great D and not a great bottom 6.
That isn't the fault of the core 4 talent. That is on the GM and the financial circumstances.

When Colorado faced that, they moved Rantanen BUT they got more than a 4th line center back.
When Leafs did it, the UFA market was barren and they got a 4th line center.
I fault management far more for that.

Huh?

No money equals no supporting cast. This Covid freezing the cap dialogue in nonsense, too. How is that only the Leafs are using this dialogue? We put all our cap into the wrong horses and got burned.

 

[cabber24]

The problem is expecting the new GM and/or POHO to make one of their first moves firing him (because anyone competent is firing him). Take that burden away from prospective hires. Don't make their first major move be a negative one.

Good point, every new GM eventually fires the coach they inherit. Just do it now.