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SCF: Vegas Golden Knights vs. Carolina Hurricanes

Bill_Berg said:
Tomorrow's headline: "Marner held pointless in biggest game of the season."

And I had placed a bet on him getting at least one point tonight. Sigh.
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It is that kind of thinking that got a 4th line center in return for his talent.

In the Cup final, Marner has:
8 pts in 5 games = 1.60ppg
He's been in on 44.4% of his teams goals which leads both teams
If Marner didn't do that, the finals would already be over.

Leafs have been around for over 100 years
Do you know how many times a Leaf scored 8 or more pts in five games in a Cup final?
I cannot find a single instance of a Leafs player ever doing that.
 
cw said:
It is that kind of thinking that got a 4th line center in return for his talent.

In the Cup final, Marner has:
8 pts in 5 games = 1.60ppg
He's been in on 44.4% of his teams goals which leads both teams
If Marner didn't do that, the finals would already be over.

Leafs have been around for over 100 years
Do you know how many times a Leaf scored 8 or more pts in five games in a Cup final?
I cannot find a single instance of a Leafs player ever doing that.
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You have taken this fanboy thing a tad far. Do you work for his security detail that bullies Marner's critics? Are you Mitch Marner?
 
cabber24 said:
You have taken this fanboy thing a tad far. Do you work for his security detail that bullies Marner's critics? Are you Mitch Marner?
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Nope
I have never met him. Have absolutely nothing to do with him, his family or anyone who knows him.
I wouldn't buy his sweater or any memorabilia to do with him. etc.
I don't go for that stuff.
I didn't even want them to draft him.

I just cited pure facts above.
I think the franchise I cheer for messed up big time with this situation.
Marner is proving them terribly wrong - as I thought he would.
I came to appreciate a drafted player I didn't want because of what I saw he did on the ice.
He earned my appreciation of his abilities. He's a very smart player.
All his NHL coaches seem to think so too.
Once again, he topping his team in ice time among the forwards in the Colorado & Carolina series - like he did in Toronto.

If we keep quiet, maybe they do it again.
We do not get players like Marner every day.
They messed up.
Now, they're kissing Matthews ass "please don't leave .."
They should have done that for Marner.
They deserve to be held to account for stupid crap like cherry picking stats or not shooting the media down for it.
Here's a top 10 NHL scorer over the last 10 years that folks said couldn't score in the playoffs, leading playoff scoring by 7 points and leading +/-. Marner proved them wrong.
The stupidity is breathtaking.
Folks not wearing blue & white glasses are laughing at the franchise because this is a sad joke and we as fans were robbed of a last run or two - treated to a dismal 28th place finish.
Why can't Leafs fans see what the NHL coaches see?
And I'm a "fanboy" for asking that question or pointing it out?
 
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cw said:
If we keep quiet, maybe they do it again.
We do not get players like Marner every day.
They messed up.
Now, they're kissing Matthews ass "please don't leave .."
They should have done that for Marner.
They deserve to be held to account for stupid crap like cherry picking stats or not shooting the media down for it.
Here's a top 10 NHL scorer over the last 10 years that folks said couldn't score in the playoffs, leading playoff scoring by 7 points and leading +/-. Marner proved them wrong.
The stupidity is breathtaking.
Folks not wearing blue & white glasses are laughing at the franchise because this is a sad joke and we as fans were robbed of a last run or two - treated to a dismal 28th place finish.
Why can't Leafs fans see what the NHL coaches see?
And I'm a "fanboy" for asking that question or pointing it out?
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I did buy my daughter a Marner jersey (and the other daughter a Matthews jersey). I like Mitch and he was unquestionably one of the best players to ever put on the blue and white. I always loved his effort and creativity with the puck.

I do believe (and some of this has bore out with Marner's own words post-breakup) there was more going on behind the scenes that us fans are not privy to that led to Marner leaving.

I will be honest, I don't think what Marner is doing this playoffs was ever going to happen if he remained a Leaf. I do think the pressure got to him and I do think we are seeing what Marner is capable of now relieved of that pressure.
 
dappleganger said:
I did buy my daughter a Marner jersey (and the other daughter a Matthews jersey). I like Mitch and he was unquestionably one of the best players to ever put on the blue and white. I always loved his effort and creativity with the puck.

I do believe (and some of this has bore out with Marner's own words post-breakup) there was more going on behind the scenes that us fans are not privy to that led to Marner leaving.

I will be honest, I don't think what Marner is doing this playoffs was ever going to happen if he remained a Leaf. I do think the pressure got to him and I do think we are seeing what Marner is capable of now relieved of that pressure.
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Totally disagree about the pressure thing. Vegas simply has a deeper team. That's the difference an actual supporting cast.
 
I really find it hard to understand the number of people on here who hate Marner. Rational posters otherwise. You don't have to be a superfan of his, but acknowledging that he was one of the best players the Leafs ever had, and who gave it his all game in and game out, is simply being objective.
 
dappleganger said:
I will be honest, I don't think what Marner is doing this playoffs was ever going to happen if he remained a Leaf. I do think the pressure got to him and I do think we are seeing what Marner is capable of now relieved of that pressure.
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I don't buy that for a second.

Look at his career in 'pressure' situations:
U18 (gold) & U20 he led his team in scoring for Canada.
London Knights - led his team in playoff scoring his last 2 seasons there - won Championship
Memorial Cup - 2nd highest points tally in history on his way to winning that
World Championships 2017 (Silver) - 2nd in team scoring Coach Cooper loved him
Leafs - top playoff scorer & top +/- among forwards during his time here. coaches Babcock, Keefe & Berube give him 1st or 2nd most ice time in playoffs
Vegas - top playoff scorer & leading +/- and 1st/2nd forward in ice time from Tortorella
Four Nations - Coach Cooper loved him, 3rd in ice time among forwards, OT goal against Sweden, set up tournament winner
Olympics- silver, 4th in forwards ice time, Coach Cooper loved him, scored quarterfinals OT goal against Czechia - without it, no medal

Out of all those rosters, what is the one key criticism that sticks out relative to all the others?
Relative to their competition, in my opinion, they were all deep teams except the Leafs - which we all talked about
So a team couldn't focus as easily on one line to shut it down.

I did not watch the game last night. I was researching the Marlies dmen to get up to speed, trying to come up with a scouting strategy for when I go see them. I hope to finish the dmen tonight and do the forwards over the weekend. But I saw in the game report that Karlsson, Marner's center, left the game injured - probably for the balance of the series. That would be devastating for Marner's line that has been their top line against Colorado and Carolina.
 
Bender said:
At this point I'm ready to become a Montreal fan to get away from any mention of him.

*Edit: Oh my god.
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Oh for heaven's sake. He's playing in the SCF; the thread's about the SCF.

And BTW, becoming a MTL fan is not a great idea to avoid talking about him. I'm sure they are indulging in all kinds of schadenfreude (or whatever the French equivalent is, if there is one) watching him have a productive playoff run.
 
ZBBM said:
Oh for heaven's sake. He's playing in the SCF; the thread's about the SCF.

And BTW, becoming a MTL fan is not a great idea to avoid talking about him. I'm sure they are indulging in all kinds of schadenfreude (or whatever the French equivalent is, if there is one) watching him have a productive playoff run.
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So we have to re-litigate literally everything all the time. Nah.
 
This Marner thing started up again because Bill Berg's post joking about the absurdity of the media was mis-construed as being anti-Marner. I'm not sure why people are so sensitive about him, on either "side" of the argument.
 
Guilt Trip said:
Totally disagree about the pressure thing. Vegas simply has a deeper team. That's the difference an actual supporting cast.
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He had the pressure of putting the team on his back because the team wasn't as deep.

He, like the rest of the team, ran into the fact that he's not one of 2-3 players in the world who can do that.

If there had been any deals among the core 4 contracts during the COVID plateau and/or if the team were less indulgent of the stars and simply refused to piss away assets for the one last missing piece every year, then things would likely have been different.
 
Guilt Trip said:
Totally disagree about the pressure thing. Vegas simply has a deeper team. That's the difference an actual supporting cast.
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3:39 Rod, you played Mitch Marner in Toronto for a number of years and he's come out here and fit in well and done, you know, a good job for what's always made him such a tough player. What's his top qualities makes him such a special player?

3:52 Yeah. Well, it's kind of obvious. I think you're right. When he was in on his in Toronto when we played him, he was the same effectiveness. You knew he was out there every shift. Like it was okay, there he comes and you know, he's making plays or scoring goals or setting up. It was always like that. So, I don't really see anything different, unfortunately. You know, um it's uh it's one of the more elite players of the game, and he's, you know, we got to find a way to not give him the free ones like he's going to find ways to make the other ones, but those ones where he's all alone, those are ones we can definitely do a better job of.
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Messier on Leafs Depth Issues

Messier also compared Marner's awareness on the ice to Gretzky's when he quickly flagged the Canes with too many men on the ice. (I don't think that was a really special moment except Messier saying it)

I was pulling for McMann to go from the scrap heap to a NHL contract. When he was on a line with Marner, it was kind of stunning. Marner is playing chess and McMann is playing checkers in terms of visualizing what is going on - the read and react. It is that part of Marner's game that migrated me from not being keen on him being drafted by the Leafs to "oh, this guy is playing at a different level mentally than nearly any one else on the ice at the moment." I don't get why more people can't see it.
 
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