ZBBM
Well-known member
There you go. I couldn't figure that out until you said that and I watched it again a couple of times. Thanks herman.
Golden Knights @ Maple Leafs - Nov. 20th, 7:30pm - SN, Fan 590
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
There you go. I couldn't figure that out until you said that and I watched it again a couple of times. Thanks herman.
One game won't decide it but Robertson has had 17 games with some ineffectiveness and being snake bit. They're probably too banged up at the moment but as the injured return, Robertson has to be vulnerable if he can't turn it around really soon. Auditions like Grebenkin's will make them think about what is possible to improve the bottom six.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
It is reasonble to conjecture that in the long run more forechecking and hitting leads to more injuries but so far this season it is not clear to me that the injury problems are overly related:
Probably Not Related:
Knies -> he got hit in the head and would have regardless of the style of play
Jarnkrok -> not related
Patches -> pulled a hamstring; don't see that as related
No idea:
Matthews -> not sure what the injury is
Maybe?
Kampf -> also don't know what his problem is
Domi -> (is he really more aggressive than last year?)
A true Leaf fan! Those were some dark days of our franchise. Reimer's first shutout Feb 3, 2011.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
You are not allowed to quote that blowhard Dangle...lol
herman
Well-known member
Normally I would've just gone direct to the Mark Masters tweet, but 'balls-first' was right there.
ZBBM
Well-known member
I got lambasted pretty good on here last night but Berube conceded it was a clean hit. He didn't like it, but it was clean. That's how I saw it.
In more pleasant news, I will obtain a Grebenkin jersey. Or a Grebyonkin jersey. Or get the name sewn on both ways. Either way, my nickname for him from now on is Paycheck.
In more pleasant news, I will obtain a Grebenkin jersey. Or a Grebyonkin jersey. Or get the name sewn on both ways. Either way, my nickname for him from now on is Paycheck.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
Arn
Well-known member
I doubt many of you follow rugby union, but they pretty much moved to a model where almost any hit to the head of an opponent is either a yellow (10 minute sin bin) or red card (rest of the game team is down a player).
What that’s done is put the onus on the tackler not to hit the head. Obviously in the early days there was a lot of contact and a lot of cards for tackles that used to be considered great “hits”.
Basically what happens is they look at the contact. They decide if there is head contact. If so it’s a penalty. They then look at “extenuating factors” so if a player slipped or ducked a head then it’s likely a yellow card. If the tackle is “deliberately” high or there are no extenuating circumstances and it is “direct” head contact, so not hitting a shoulder and riding up, then likely it’s a red card.
They even allow for the off field video referee to alert the on field referee to incidents and then watch the video and decide on a punishment.
At first there was a lot of outcry at the changes and there were a lot of decisions that took a while to accept the new standards.
But overall I would say that from what I’ve watched head contact is down. I don’t see why hockey can’t don’t a similar level.
Any head contact whatsoever with “extenuating circumstances” - major penalty
“Deliberate” head contact - minor plus major plus match penalty
Here’s an example from the world cup final last year of a red card.
And another from Ireland v New Zealand. This one is good cos it shows them talking about mitigation etc
What that’s done is put the onus on the tackler not to hit the head. Obviously in the early days there was a lot of contact and a lot of cards for tackles that used to be considered great “hits”.
Basically what happens is they look at the contact. They decide if there is head contact. If so it’s a penalty. They then look at “extenuating factors” so if a player slipped or ducked a head then it’s likely a yellow card. If the tackle is “deliberately” high or there are no extenuating circumstances and it is “direct” head contact, so not hitting a shoulder and riding up, then likely it’s a red card.
They even allow for the off field video referee to alert the on field referee to incidents and then watch the video and decide on a punishment.
At first there was a lot of outcry at the changes and there were a lot of decisions that took a while to accept the new standards.
But overall I would say that from what I’ve watched head contact is down. I don’t see why hockey can’t don’t a similar level.
Any head contact whatsoever with “extenuating circumstances” - major penalty
“Deliberate” head contact - minor plus major plus match penalty
Here’s an example from the world cup final last year of a red card.
And another from Ireland v New Zealand. This one is good cos it shows them talking about mitigation etc
Last edited:
Arn
Well-known member
Just realised I meant to equate my plan to the two obvious recent examples.
So the Reaves hit would be a match penalty so minor, major and match.
The Whitecloud hit is contact to the head, but has slight mitigation. But to me under my system it’s still a hit to the head, so it gets a major penalty. He doesn’t “mean” to target the head. But he does. So penalty.
Head contact is so dangerous. Other sports are waking up to it. Hockey needs to catch up.
So the Reaves hit would be a match penalty so minor, major and match.
The Whitecloud hit is contact to the head, but has slight mitigation. But to me under my system it’s still a hit to the head, so it gets a major penalty. He doesn’t “mean” to target the head. But he does. So penalty.
Head contact is so dangerous. Other sports are waking up to it. Hockey needs to catch up.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Arn
Well-known member
Yes, so I guess my argument is that all head contact SHOULD be illegal. Then it’s just a matter of the scale of the illegality. Which is kind of where rugby is.
I don’t think making head contact illegal would stop hitting or big hits. And again in rugby it’s still as physical with big tackles. People have just adjusted how they make the hits/tackles for the most part.
I don’t think making head contact illegal would stop hitting or big hits. And again in rugby it’s still as physical with big tackles. People have just adjusted how they make the hits/tackles for the most part.
Good posts Arn.
I see very little that is good being discovered with the medical consequences from hits to the head.
There is still not a lot they can do medically for the damage. They still have a lot to learn about it.
So they need to minimize it.
We follow rugby some. I think what they're doing is what they need to do.
Decades ago, I started in rugby as a hooker in the scrum. When the ball came in, the other side would be punching and punching uppercuts to the hooker in the face so they couldn't see the ball to 'hook' it back with their feet into their side of the scrum. Times have changed.
Knies is a young, capable power forward. He's had two good whacks to his head as a Leaf
How many more whacks to his head before he is compromised as a player or his long term health is affected if it hasn't been already?
To me, Berube is old school. The whacks to the head have to be minimized.
I see no excuse for Whitecloud to leave his feet.
I'm with Boudreau on Whitecloud leaving his feet - the deal breaker for me (57 second mark seems pretty clear)
They have to learn to avoid contact with a players head.
Doesn't matter how things used to be. We know better now.
I see very little that is good being discovered with the medical consequences from hits to the head.
There is still not a lot they can do medically for the damage. They still have a lot to learn about it.
So they need to minimize it.
We follow rugby some. I think what they're doing is what they need to do.
Decades ago, I started in rugby as a hooker in the scrum. When the ball came in, the other side would be punching and punching uppercuts to the hooker in the face so they couldn't see the ball to 'hook' it back with their feet into their side of the scrum. Times have changed.
Knies is a young, capable power forward. He's had two good whacks to his head as a Leaf
How many more whacks to his head before he is compromised as a player or his long term health is affected if it hasn't been already?
To me, Berube is old school. The whacks to the head have to be minimized.
I see no excuse for Whitecloud to leave his feet.
I'm with Boudreau on Whitecloud leaving his feet - the deal breaker for me (57 second mark seems pretty clear)
Doesn't matter how things used to be. We know better now.