2012 CBA Negotiations Thread
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Kin
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I didn't know if there was a generic Gary Bettman thread so I thought this was as good a place as any to post a link to an excerpt of The Instigator: How Gary Bettman Remade the League and Changed the Game Forever which is apparently a book.
How Gary Bettman spent the Vancouver Riots
Of particular interest, I thought was the bit at the end that actually talks about where he was during the riots. I'm not as anti-Bettman as I know a lot of people are but I'm still a little surprised at the idea that he gets treated like a celebrity.
How Gary Bettman spent the Vancouver Riots
Of particular interest, I thought was the bit at the end that actually talks about where he was during the riots. I'm not as anti-Bettman as I know a lot of people are but I'm still a little surprised at the idea that he gets treated like a celebrity.
hockeyfan1
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OldTimeHockey said:
From the article:
What?s to stop the Russian KHL, which now has 26 teams in seven countries, from starting its own North American division and attracting both players and fans hungry for hockey?
Just a thought, could it happen?
hockeyfan1 said:
7 countries sounds like a giant league, but you should not forget that 5 of them are former Soviet Republics and their teams (Minsk, Riga, Kiev, Kharkov, Astana) have always been part of Soviet/Russian hockey league. In other words the only true expansion is accepting Slovan Bratislava (Slovakia) and Lev Prague (Czech Republic) this season. Only time will tell whether this expansion lasts. Lev team played in Poprad (Slovakia) last year and went bankrupt. In Prague they will do better especially if they keep winning, not sure about Slovan team.
Rebel_1812
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Ovie thinks the salary cut means some players will not come back.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405665
"I said it before, before I sign a contract, if the league decides to cut our salaries and cut our contracts for what they want, I don't know how many guys will be coming back," Ovechkin said on the call. "We signed contracts before so why do they have to cut our salaries and our contracts right now? They signed us, [now they] want to cut it. I think it's a stupid idea and a stupid decision by the NHL, [commissioner Gary] Bettman and the guys who work there."
The KHL has given the league competition for mid level Russian players. Some make more money over there then in the NHL. This trend might expand to mid-level non-Russian players and even top flight players depending on the CBA. As Ovie points outs, how can you trust someone and do business with you if they don't honor your contract.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405665
"I said it before, before I sign a contract, if the league decides to cut our salaries and cut our contracts for what they want, I don't know how many guys will be coming back," Ovechkin said on the call. "We signed contracts before so why do they have to cut our salaries and our contracts right now? They signed us, [now they] want to cut it. I think it's a stupid idea and a stupid decision by the NHL, [commissioner Gary] Bettman and the guys who work there."
The KHL has given the league competition for mid level Russian players. Some make more money over there then in the NHL. This trend might expand to mid-level non-Russian players and even top flight players depending on the CBA. As Ovie points outs, how can you trust someone and do business with you if they don't honor your contract.
hockeyfan1
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If this doesn't do the job.....
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/precocious-3-old-nhl-fan-thinks-gary-bettman-211046435--nhl.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/precocious-3-old-nhl-fan-thinks-gary-bettman-211046435--nhl.html
Hampreacher
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Amodest proposal. Settle the revenue sharing at 50-50. Set cap at 63 million with a luxury tax of 10% up to 70 million. When cap reaches 70 million luxury option gone. Cap is cap as determined by 50-50 share. Move Tampa Bay to Seattle. Move Columbus and Nashville to Quebec City and Moncton. Move Florida to Hamilton. Then with 3 lockouts in Bettmans tenure a sign of poor management fire Bettman.
Frank E
Active member
Interesting read, I didn't realize that there were some cost deductions from HRR for the teams...although I'm not sure the Friedman understands it that well.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/09/making-sense-of-hockey-related-revenue.html
The most interesting part of this particular CBA negotiation, in my opinion, is the fact that the players are not disputing the figures coming out of the league with respect to the losses many teams are realizing.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/09/making-sense-of-hockey-related-revenue.html
The most interesting part of this particular CBA negotiation, in my opinion, is the fact that the players are not disputing the figures coming out of the league with respect to the losses many teams are realizing.
Chev-boyar-sky
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Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake, but I just realized an interesting thing.
Is it any kind of coincidence that we saw lots of long term big dollar deals to major stars in the last couple years and now we're seeing the owners ask for 17% or whatever it is back.
I guess I mean was there some kind of knowledge on the ownership side that they would never fully honour the amount they were proposing as they would be making harsh demands in this CBA?
It definitely leads to bad blood between guys with mega year deals and ownership and makes guys looking for long deals wary of leaving any kind of dollars on the table as they won't trust the owners in the future to honour the contracts that are bargained in good faith.
Also it's kind of ironic (sad) that one of the few teams who could easily afford to pay every penny of the most expensive long term deals has absolutely zero on the books.
This league just makes no sense at all....
Is it any kind of coincidence that we saw lots of long term big dollar deals to major stars in the last couple years and now we're seeing the owners ask for 17% or whatever it is back.
I guess I mean was there some kind of knowledge on the ownership side that they would never fully honour the amount they were proposing as they would be making harsh demands in this CBA?
It definitely leads to bad blood between guys with mega year deals and ownership and makes guys looking for long deals wary of leaving any kind of dollars on the table as they won't trust the owners in the future to honour the contracts that are bargained in good faith.
Also it's kind of ironic (sad) that one of the few teams who could easily afford to pay every penny of the most expensive long term deals has absolutely zero on the books.
This league just makes no sense at all....
maplesyrup
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Interesting. I hadn't considered that.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
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Another step down this line of thought is that any upcoming free agents might be more inclined to sign with a team who did not double cross players, unlike those teams who signed big free agent deals with every intention of trying to bargain 17% off during the CBA.
crazyperfectdevil
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i can't believe they're really going to let this BS eat into a season ..really can't say i like either side, and with the leafs well into perpetual suck mode my interest as a fan is sinking fast.
bustaheims
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crazyperfectdevil said:
Can't say I'm a fan of either side either here. The owners are asking for more than they know the players will give and the players are proposing a system they know the owners won't go for. Both sides will say they've made concessions in terms of numbers, but, when they can't come to an agreement on basic structure, the numbers don't really mean all that much.
crazyperfectdevil
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bustaheims said:
it does seem as if they're really abusing the fans this time. there is always resentment when a strike happens, the feeling of who the hell do these people think they are. there are also always the calls for a boycott which of course never come. but i don't know this stoppage coming only a few years after the last one it's like they're just out and out calling the fan's bluff.
nobody really wants to feel like a sucker, least of all the fans. i'll try and resist the urge to say anything dramatic but if they lose another season over this crap it'll be time to reevaluate some things personally.
bustaheims
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crazyperfectdevil said:
I'm sure you're not the only one that feels that way. If this thing drags on too long, a lot of people could very well not come back for a while.
Frank E
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Anyone think anything of the NHL players displacing European hockey players that do it for a living?
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2012/09/20/20215316.html
I can understand the resentment of the local players somewhat, but it's still a business. I guess the teams will do what they think will sell seats.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2012/09/20/20215316.html
I can understand the resentment of the local players somewhat, but it's still a business. I guess the teams will do what they think will sell seats.
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
I thought of that too, though I somewhat doubt it.
On one hand the league is a free-market system where teams vie to be the highest bidder for UFA services (players willmost likely always go for the $). On the other hand it's run like some kind of socialist business system where the highest earners (well all players really) give up money so that a league owned team can remain in a market where they're not profitable. What kind of business model is this?
A further thought on my previous point: Imagine being a player who just signed a retirement contract in the past few years. Those players decided what team they wanted to commit to, some left $ on the table for term, and now they're facing a 17% cut of their entire career's worth of earnings.
If there's a side to support here, it's the players. Nothing they've done has been underhanded, conspiratorial or dishonest. They simply play the game and ask for salaries consistent with the market value.
The owners on the other hand contradict themselves at every turn, and support and create a business model that just doesn't work (although it's quite profitable). Bettman (or Daly) said something to the effect that the last CBA was "too fair" to the players. Well that's all good and fine but the players took whatever the owners put forth.
Again the owners screw themselves over (see: huge long deals, tons of money handed out, not enough corresponding revenue) and ultimately expect the fans to pay for it. The same fans who continue to pay higher and higher ticket prices every year.
Disgusting.
Kin
New member
Frank E said:
If they were on strike, maybe, but they're locked out. If your employer locks you out there's nothing underhanded or untoward about seeking alternative employment.
Nobody's entitled to a job as a hockey player. I feel as bad for a Swiss League player who loses their spot as I do for a CHL guy who doesn't get drafted or a guy who gets cut from an AHL roster because he's not good enough.
L K
Active member
Nik? said:
On that note, is anyone showing any sympathy for all the NHL players that were sent down on waivers to the AHL who otherwise wouldn't. Controlled by the NHL still AND taking jobs away from AHL 4th liners. There aren't sympathy stories about those players though.
I think the way those kinds of articles are phrased 'evil millionaire players running around playing for free' kind of ignores the fact that every single one of those NHL players potentially was a bad coach/organizational strategy away from playing in Europe themselves. If they struggled the NHL doesn't think twice about ditching them. That is why a Harrison Reid is playing in Europe. So complaining that better players have come in to thake away their jobs I think is a kind of weak complaint.
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