2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[L K]

As for "run and gun" what would you call the way Toronto was playing in October?

It seems to me that many are asking for the Leafs to fix their issues they had in October without changing the way they play the game.

Let's talk "run and gun" for a second. You would agree that this sort of style would result in a large number of shot attempts going both ways, correct? Here are some Leafs stats from October and November/December:

	GP	CF/60	CA/60	Sh%	Sv%
October	12	61.15 (9th)	57.95 (12th)	11.11 (1st)	90.32 (27th)
Nov/Dec	21	58.07 (15th)	61.47 (26th)	8.66 (7th)	94.32 (3rd)

The Leafs, apparently playing "run and gun", had just the 9th highest shot attempts rate and the 12th lowest shots against against rate.

The Leafs, playing "safe" dump and chase hockey, are of course getting loss shot attempts now but also allowing way more shot attempts in their own end.

The Leafs weren't playing 80s hockey in October. They were playing with speed. They were playing with controlled entries and controlled exits. They were playing with the puck on their sticks as often as they could. Those are all things that they've deliberately stopped doing since November 1st. They were also making dumb mistakes defensively. Those weren't systemic though, they were just dumb human errors. And they were running with sky high shooting and save percentages on opposite ends of the spectrum which led to very high goal totals for both teams playing.

So, if we assume that Babcock isn't an idiot, and he's watching the same games we are, why is he using this strategy?

Is he trying to show a different look, and then change it up later when goaltending cools off?

I think the big thing to remember is that a good coach can still be biased and make poor decisions.  We are looking for logic behind his decisions and sometimes the logic they Babcock is using is simply flawed.

In October every odd man rush seemed to end up in the Leafs net.  Now Andersen is standing on his head.  If Andersen could get his game going on day 1 I wonder if we see a big change in style as of November.  What I am disappointed to see is the leafs stopped using the high flip into the neutral zone.  Instead of simply dumping the puck you flip the puck, keeping the defender facing the play to watch the puck biut giving your forwards more time to chase instead of retrieve in the corners.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

As for "run and gun" what would you call the way Toronto was playing in October?

It seems to me that many are asking for the Leafs to fix their issues they had in October without changing the way they play the game.

Let's talk "run and gun" for a second. You would agree that this sort of style would result in a large number of shot attempts going both ways, correct? Here are some Leafs stats from October and November/December:

	GP	CF/60	CA/60	Sh%	Sv%
October	12	61.15 (9th)	57.95 (12th)	11.11 (1st)	90.32 (27th)
Nov/Dec	21	58.07 (15th)	61.47 (26th)	8.66 (7th)	94.32 (3rd)

The Leafs, apparently playing "run and gun", had just the 9th highest shot attempts rate and the 12th lowest shots against against rate.

The Leafs, playing "safe" dump and chase hockey, are of course getting loss shot attempts now but also allowing way more shot attempts in their own end.

The Leafs weren't playing 80s hockey in October. They were playing with speed. They were playing with controlled entries and controlled exits. They were playing with the puck on their sticks as often as they could. Those are all things that they've deliberately stopped doing since November 1st. They were also making dumb mistakes defensively. Those weren't systemic though, they were just dumb human errors. And they were running with sky high shooting and save percentages on opposite ends of the spectrum which led to very high goal totals for both teams playing.

So, if we assume that Babcock isn't an idiot, and he's watching the same games we are, why is he using this strategy?

Is he trying to show a different look, and then change it up later when goaltending cools off?

I think the big thing to remember is that a good coach can still be biased and make poor decisions.  We are looking for logic behind his decisions and sometimes the logic they Babcock is using is simply flawed.

In October every odd man rush seemed to end up in the Leafs net.  Now Andersen is standing on his head.  If Andersen could get his game going on day 1 I wonder if we see a big change in style as of November.  What I am disappointed to see is the leafs stopped using the high flip into the neutral zone.  Instead of simply dumping the puck you flip the puck, keeping the defender facing the play to watch the puck biut giving your forwards more time to chase instead of retrieve in the corners.

See, I hate the high flip into the neutral zone almost as much as the dump and chase. I'd say there's a 75% chance you're going to lose the puck on the high flip "breakout" as your forwards are facing up ice and their defence are facing the oncoming puck.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/942436102945701888

MARTY TIME

 

[herman]

Uh that probably means Polak in the top 4.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm assuming this means Carrick is in......right?

 

[L K]

Gardener and Carrick are reunited Herman!
Reilly-Hainsey.  Borgnine-Polak

Unfortunately JVR-Bozak-Marner is still a thing.
Hyman-Nylander-Brown.  Komarov-Kadri-Marleau.  Moore-Martin-Kapanen.

 

[herman]

Gardener and Carrick are reunited Herman!

I hope it sticks!

 

[ZBBM]

https://twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/942436102945701888

MARTY TIME

We'll look back on this as the Turning Point that pivoted us onto the road to the Cup.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Uh that probably means Polak in the top 4.

Not top 4, but think of how much PK time he's about to get...

 

[sickbeast]

The bigger question is Auston Matthews and when he's coming back.  He has not looked like himself at all this season aside from the very beginning.  Honestly, if guys like Martin and Polak are going to stand around and do nothing while Matthews takes that kind of punishment, I don't know what they're doing in the lineup, quite frankly.  There are way more skilled guys to replace both of them.  I'm starting to wonder about Komarov also.

 

[herman]

Uh that probably means Polak in the top 4.

Not top 4, but think of how much PK time he's about to get...

They count PK minutes when you're in the box?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Per Babcock, Zaitsev will out be for at least 2 weeks: http://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/matthews-a-bit-closer-to-return-but-zaitsev-out-two-weeks

Also from that article:

?The way I look at it, it creates an opportunity for (Connor) Carrick, who has been waiting all year. The ball?s in his court and we get to watch him.?

All year? Carrick played 17 of the first 22 games this season. Did... did Babcock actually forget he existed?

 

[Bullfrog]

He's confusing Carrick with Corrado, which is understandable because they both start with C and shoot right-handed.

 

[herman]

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/12/18/16787290/toronto-maple-leafs-nobody-loves-leo-komarov-right-now

I like Katya's take on Komarov's recent usage:

So rather than say that Babcock has been setting out to play Komarov more, the reality is he?s being used, somewhat indirectly, to make up the slack with Matthews out of the lineup. I suppose I could say he?s replaced Matthews on the power play if I wanted to stir things up, but that?s not really true. He?s the next man up at the bottom end. Perhaps you as a fan want to see Josh Leivo or Kasperi Kapanen in that role instead, and in the case of Leivo, that has happened. In the case of Kapanen, he?s played on some other team all year. It?s not shocking he didn?t immediately get power play time on the Leafs.

Much more meaningful is the increase in shutdown line duties for Komarov at five-on-five with Matthews out, and in general as the Leafs have been struggling defensively. Komarov isn?t on this team to score goals. He?s there to make the Kadri line succeed at shutting down the toughest opposition lines.

That is to say Komarov is not being used deliberately more than better players, but that the situations where he is deployed are coming up more often during this stretch (especially with Matthews out). Every player's deployment is situationally curated this season.

There's no drop-in replacement on our team for Komarov's role that's not already occupied elsewhere, and certainly no call-up that would warrant waiving someone. Just ride out this massive road stretch. Kappy will probably start picking up some PP time if he keeps getting into the lineup (esp. over Leivo). Hiller probably wants him to get a few practice reps before throwing him in there (it's a different-ish setup than the Marlies).

 

[herman]

Are we tired of dump talk yet?

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/12/18/toronto-maple-leafs-notebook-first-bout-of-adversity/

Anthony has a pretty good read on what the forwards could be doing better to alleviate the need to dump and chase so often. He also talks about our current stretch of the schedule being basically the worst it will be this season.

Edit: the solution is something mentioned earlier: our forwards are collecting themselves at the blue line and presenting stationary targets, which leaves the breakout player with the sole option of dumping in. Having the forwards cycle to get open instead of standing still could help open up new lanes.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Are we tired of dump talk yet?

I'm reading this from under my glass coffee table, so no, not at all.

Danke.

 

[Kin]

Dump and chase? More like Dumb and Chase.

Boom. Roasted. Someone high five me.

 

[bustaheims]

Dump and chase? More like Dumb and Chase.

Boom. Roasted. Someone high five me.

And, no, I don't care that it's the wrong show.

 

[herman]

Speaking of chasing, did anyone else jump on this?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bell-rogers-telus-price-wars-1.4453573

 

[disco]

Y'know the last few weeks have been pretty boring hockey until the get behind/third period and I've been miffed about it recently. They certainly have enough guns to go out there and be creative. But now I'm starting to come around to the thinking that this is another growth year. Babs is drilling defense into the creative forwards so much that when the time comes to turn it loose down the road and in their careers, they're dependable 200-ft players. Auston is pretty much already there, but if/when Willy and Mitchy reach the level of offensive finesse with all the other attributes, look out. I have the feeling they're trying to build three complete superstars for the next decade.