2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
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L K
Active member
Frank E said:
Honestly, probably not. He's cap is likely as a decent 4th liner. It was a bad pick at the time, it continues to be a bad pick. He's big and slow. Barb can make him big and modestly less slow but he's never going to be fast and he lacks offensive instincts to become more like a Brian Boyle guy who pots 10 goals a year on the 4th line.
bustaheims
Active member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't think his speed is an issue for a 4C. He's not a great skater, but he doesn't look slow, either. I'd agree his footspeed does limit his upside to a 4C.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
I think it's pretty unfair to judge The Goat right now, one he was playing with Martin and two he's had almost no time to show his skill and get up to speed.
I've watched a lot of him with the Marlies since he was drafted, the progression he has made is nothing short of remarkable. I would have him locked in as the fourth line center going forward.
He has shown an ability to absolutely dominate in the AHL at times, perhaps not on the scoreboard always, but he can take over a game and push play the right way if he's given guys with wheels who can get open for him.
His reach and smarts make him a good PK'er too.
I've watched a lot of him with the Marlies since he was drafted, the progression he has made is nothing short of remarkable. I would have him locked in as the fourth line center going forward.
He has shown an ability to absolutely dominate in the AHL at times, perhaps not on the scoreboard always, but he can take over a game and push play the right way if he's given guys with wheels who can get open for him.
His reach and smarts make him a good PK'er too.
ZBBM
Active member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
Thanks for this. You know more than I do since you've watched him a lot. Maybe he is faster than he's looked to me in the couple of games I've seen him this year. But if it turns out he isn't, in principle I'd like a faster guy in that (or any) roster spot.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
I appreciate your other comments but this isn't really an excuse we can give to a player. Martin's here for 2 more seasons after this one. At least. We're going to have to find a 4C who can fit with him.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
Of course, he is averaging six minutes a night at 5v5 with him, expecting him to generate anything that really makes you have a positive impression of him, is going to be difficult especially in this small a sample.
I like that he uses his stick well and finishes his checks in the offensive zone when given a chance and I think he's looked good on the PK for the most part, again in a limited sample.
I've seen a lot of Moore and even more of Martin and I have zero doubt that at this point Freddy is better than both and has significantly more upside on his best days.
L K
Active member
I dont' think there are a lot of people who are going to argue against a 4th line of Kapanen-Gauthier-Soshnikov but we just arent' going to see that with Babcock as coach. We have some unnecessary need to keep ready players in the minors to justify the existence of crappy 4th liners.
I'm all for promoting competition between lines but that argument flew out the window for me when Babcock consistently violates it with his veteran knuckle draggers.
Even the press does it. Go back and look at the articles from November when Martin was a healthy scratch. Woe is me articles about gud pro Matt Martin. Dermott gets scratched for playing well because Babcock is obsessed with playing Polak and most of the talk is on Dermott holding his head up and waiting for his opportunity. Bull shit. Babcock has been throwing that "wait for your opportunity" line at Josh Leivo for two years. He's thrown it at Kapanen, Soshnikov, etc. and they continue to sit because Babcock wants to run his traditional lineup.
I'm all for promoting competition between lines but that argument flew out the window for me when Babcock consistently violates it with his veteran knuckle draggers.
Even the press does it. Go back and look at the articles from November when Martin was a healthy scratch. Woe is me articles about gud pro Matt Martin. Dermott gets scratched for playing well because Babcock is obsessed with playing Polak and most of the talk is on Dermott holding his head up and waiting for his opportunity. Bull shit. Babcock has been throwing that "wait for your opportunity" line at Josh Leivo for two years. He's thrown it at Kapanen, Soshnikov, etc. and they continue to sit because Babcock wants to run his traditional lineup.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
I just hope Dubas becomes GM soon and takes away all of Babcock's crappy toys.
Highlander
Active member
The team has been speeding up in the last few games, however my belief is that when Zaitsev and Dermott are back next week, then things are going to change on the back end fairly dramatically. I hope Polak and Carrick are out and that the Borgman stays but this may not be the case for obvious waiver reasons. Borg would not be hurt by lots of playing time with the Marlies, he is part of our future I do believe.
With Zaitsev and Dermott we become faster more agile and skilled on the back end. It will take pressure off Rielly and Gardiner and some more relief for Hainsey who will have reduced minutes. With the forwards the Leafs have, with the Goaltending that Anderson has served up this season, if the D can step up to be even 25% better then we are going to be in the mix in a very big way. Just saying
With Zaitsev and Dermott we become faster more agile and skilled on the back end. It will take pressure off Rielly and Gardiner and some more relief for Hainsey who will have reduced minutes. With the forwards the Leafs have, with the Goaltending that Anderson has served up this season, if the D can step up to be even 25% better then we are going to be in the mix in a very big way. Just saying
LuncheonMeat
New member
herman said:
This makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Even Steve Simmons is off the Polak-train:
http://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/simmons-says-of-crosby-mcdavid-donaldson-signing-and-team-canada
http://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/simmons-says-of-crosby-mcdavid-donaldson-signing-and-team-canada
herman
Well-known member
https://theleafsnation.com/2018/01/13/leafs-geeks-podcast-tactical-analysis-with-justin-bourne/
From Ian and Justin's conversation comes this nugget: (paraphrased)
Also a lot of other good tactical stuff, e.g. why does Babcock love Hyman and Brown? Is Rielly stupid (nope)?
From Ian and Justin's conversation comes this nugget: (paraphrased)
Also a lot of other good tactical stuff, e.g. why does Babcock love Hyman and Brown? Is Rielly stupid (nope)?
herman said:
The sad thing is, I'm not super convinced that's true. I'd probably take Gudbranson over Polak. The first issue would be cost: I obviously wouldn't give up much of anything to acquire him. The second issue would be if they wanted to re-sign Gudbranson. He's probably more likely to get a long-term extension because of his age than Polak is.
But if A) Babcock is insistent on having a big stay-at-home defenceman in the 3RD spot, B) the cost to acquire Gudbranson was cheap (I saw someone throw Andrew Nielsen's name around, I could stomach that), and C) the team would let him walk at the end of the season, I'd take Gudbranson over Polak.