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2019-2020 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

OldTimeHockey said:
Peter D. said:
OldTimeHockey said:
I don't know that Ceci lacks mobility. He lacks decision making ability.

Ceci just flat out sucks.

I'm just a nicer guy I guess.

I think it's fair to say Ceci is physically very capable of the job, but in terms of thinking the game under pressure, there is too much of a lag at this level. He's got decent shot share with the Leafs so far.

This is sort of the opposite case with Hainsey, where it was clear his body wasn't really able to keep up with what his mind wanted to do (which was usually a smart, defensive play).
 
herman said:
OldTimeHockey said:
Peter D. said:
OldTimeHockey said:
I don't know that Ceci lacks mobility. He lacks decision making ability.

Ceci just flat out sucks.

I'm just a nicer guy I guess.

I think it's fair to say Ceci is physically very capable of the job, but in terms of thinking the game under pressure, there is too much of a lag at this level. He's got decent shot share with the Leafs so far.

This is sort of the opposite case with Hainsey, where it was clear his body wasn't really able to keep up with what his mind wanted to do (which was usually a smart, defensive play).

So the solution is to bring Hainsey back and pair them together?
 
OldTimeHockey said:
herman said:
OldTimeHockey said:
Peter D. said:
OldTimeHockey said:
I don't know that Ceci lacks mobility. He lacks decision making ability.

Ceci just flat out sucks.

I'm just a nicer guy I guess.

I think it's fair to say Ceci is physically very capable of the job, but in terms of thinking the game under pressure, there is too much of a lag at this level. He's got decent shot share with the Leafs so far.

This is sort of the opposite case with Hainsey, where it was clear his body wasn't really able to keep up with what his mind wanted to do (which was usually a smart, defensive play).

So the solution is to bring Hainsey back and pair them together?
Watching Ceci reminds me that Hainsey was not a bad as we thought.  Ceci does have more offensive upside but that is not really what we need him for.  Nice him and Barrie are history after this year.  Need some guys like Dermot who can close gaps, limit chances.
 
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/11/14/mike-babcock-on-tyson-barrie/

Morgan Rielly was talking about trying to get the swagger back. As a coaching staff, how can you help the guys get back to that?

Babcock: Well, the biggest thing is: When you leave the rink each night and when your team has won and you?ve played well, you feel really good. When you are disappointed and you don?t like how you played, you don?t feel as good. A big part of that is sticking to the process longer and doing it right and we?ll be rewarded.

That?s a good question. That?s what we went through here today ? identified our game. Last night was a perfect example. When they scored their first goal, we had the puck the whole time. They scored a goal and boom, the next thing you know, it?s two. And then the second period started and we own it. They don?t have it. They get the puck and shoot it in our net. The next few shifts ? again, we didn?t handle it.

To me, to say we weren?t prepared or didn?t play well ? that?s not true. But when it went bad, what did we do? The whole game is mistakes. It goes bad regularly, but how do you pick each other up? How do you handle it? How do you get back on track quickly and handle that? We spoke about that as well.

People could seriously take and apply this concept to their every day lives.
 
To continue this discussion, tonight was just another exclamation point on the short take that has applied to our D for years: Not good enough defensively.  Rielly's appalling 3rd period is an aberration; he's not THAT bad, he seems to be playing down to the level of his partner.

The real question is this: Is Dubas ready to admit that he's made a mistake ? several mistakes ? in his trades for defensemen?  He overpaid for Muzzin, which is the least of his failings on this score.  His 2 offseason trades this past summer have been complete disasters in terms of the defensemen he got back.  Barrie was totally the wrong guy, but at least he should have provided offense.  His collapse is just inexplicable.  Taking on Ceci was just plain stupid.

The D we have now doesn't cut it, and never will.  It's time to begin overhauling it.  Our wonderful window with the Big 4 will close sooner than we like.

Sandin and Liljegren are the future of the defense.  (We'd better pray they turn out all right.)  There's no reason to wait until next year to debut them.  I'd:

1.  Trade Muzzin at the deadline, before he walks.  He's a pretty good defenseman, but nothing to build around.
2.  Trade Barrie at the deadline or, preferably, sooner ? if you can get any kind of decent offer.  Hopefully he'll begin scoring a bit to revive his value.  He was exactly what we didn't need, on top of Rielly.
3.  Dump Ceci.  Yesterday.  For anything.  For nothing.
4.  Bring up Sandin, Liljegren, or both.  Let them make mistakes.  Let them learn at this level.  Get them ready now to be mainstays during the rest of Big 4 contract windows.

Rielly-Muzzin
Dermott-Holl
Sandin/Liljegren-Barrie; Sandin-Liljgren once Barrie's gone

(Marincin, Schmaltz, whatever)

I was really impressed with Matthews' game tonight.  He and Nylander have been dynamite.  Tavares/Marner/Hyman/Johnsson/Kapanen ? that's solid.  Let's not fritter their years here away screwing around with a fundamentally ill-conceived defense group.
 
Matthews was really good tonight. Threw his weight around a few times, was dangerous in the offensive zone, skated hard on the back check. He needs to bring that game more often against other opponents, not just Boston. If the Leafs play that way against everyone, they'll win their fair share of games.

As for the defense...if Barrie ever gets his confidence back and starts providing offense, maybe things won't look so bad. But he isn't good in the dzone, nor are Ceci and Rielly. Pairing Rielly and Ceci is a bad science project that needs to end yesterday. Not sure how  you juggle the pieces we have and make better pairings though, and that's on Dubas. Maybe they need to bite the bullet and move Holl and/or Dermot up in the pairings, and maybe bring in Sandin who is probably better than Ceci already.
 
I don't think trying to fast forward Sandin's development is a strong move.  It's a move that stinks of Oilers.  I also don't think it's a good idea to throw kids into a team that's in disarray. 

I don't think they're in a position to do much at all.  They're going to have to play it out with the bunch they've got.

Look on the bright side, I don't think it's going to get much worse. 
 
Frank E said:
I don't think trying to fast forward Sandin's development is a strong move.  It's a move that stinks of Oilers.  I also don't think it's a good idea to throw kids into a team that's in disarray. 

I don't think they're in a position to do much at all.  They're going to have to play it out with the bunch they've got.

Look on the bright side, I don't think it's going to get much worse.

I'm pretty confident Sandin can handle it.  Maybe Liljegren too.  In any case, both of them are going to be in the lineup next year, and they're going to have growing pains then just like now.  Might as well get it over with, and try to get a return on Barrie and especially Muzzin, because neither of them will be back.

Like Chris said, they need defensemen who are defenders in the dzone when the other team has the puck.  Not a radical idea.  Dubas's idea of possession as be-all and end-all needs to be modified.
 
Don't underestimate Liljegren. He's not flashy but gets the job done as a steady defensive guy first. Heard nothing but good things this season.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Frank E said:
I don't think trying to fast forward Sandin's development is a strong move.  It's a move that stinks of Oilers.  I also don't think it's a good idea to throw kids into a team that's in disarray. 

I don't think they're in a position to do much at all.  They're going to have to play it out with the bunch they've got.

Look on the bright side, I don't think it's going to get much worse.

I'm pretty confident Sandin can handle it.  Maybe Liljegren too.  In any case, both of them are going to be in the lineup next year, and they're going to have growing pains then just like now.  Might as well get it over with, and try to get a return on Barrie and especially Muzzin, because neither of them will be back.

Like Chris said, they need defensemen who are defenders in the dzone when the other team has the puck.  Not a radical idea.  Dubas's idea of possession as be-all and end-all needs to be modified.
Disagree on Muzzin, wish the could clone another 5 of him.  Get rid of Ceci, Barrie, bring up Sandin and Liljegren...the way Mogen is playing is atrocious, sorry to say he has gone from my favorite to someone I would trade for a barrel of prospects or draft picks.  He is terrible, either hurt, overworked, badly coached, but he needs to start taking the body, he has more strength than any other Leaf but all he does is wave his stick around and not taking the gaps or body at all.  You can hang both Marchands third period goals on his hat..horrible defending.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Dubas's idea of possession as be-all and end-all needs to be modified.

Definitely agree.

But regarding the kids, Sandin is too good a prospect to risk, especially after seeing him get clocked by Abdelkader. Another WJC, and another season of 20+ minutes in the AHL too beneficial to pass up at this stage.

They'll need him next year without question as a regular based upon the cap. If they do deal Barrie  (they should be trying for a team-friendly extension now on Muzzin, not in the offseason) I'd consider bringing him up for the playoffs (here's hoping) at the earliest.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Frank E said:
I don't think trying to fast forward Sandin's development is a strong move.  It's a move that stinks of Oilers.  I also don't think it's a good idea to throw kids into a team that's in disarray. 

I don't think they're in a position to do much at all.  They're going to have to play it out with the bunch they've got.

Look on the bright side, I don't think it's going to get much worse.

I'm pretty confident Sandin can handle it.  Maybe Liljegren too.  In any case, both of them are going to be in the lineup next year, and they're going to have growing pains then just like now.  Might as well get it over with, and try to get a return on Barrie and especially Muzzin, because neither of them will be back.

Like Chris said, they need defensemen who are defenders in the dzone when the other team has the puck.  Not a radical idea.  Dubas's idea of possession as be-all and end-all needs to be modified.
Does Dubas truly view possession as the be all end all or is this something you're projecting on to him?
 
Engvall's been called up.

tenor.gif
 
herman said:
https://twitter.com/MapleLeafs/status/1196503892596420608

YA LET'S BE TALL AND FAST
He's played really well this year in his new centre role. 32pts in 70 games last year...16pts, 15 games this season. Wonder if Babs slots him into 3rd line centre?
 
He scored one yesterday and an assist and had two on Saturday and some assists and I believe he scored 2 in the game directly before the weekend series. Can't hurt.  Now Bracco please, unfortunately both Sandin and Launchingpad are injured.
 

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