2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

https://twitter.com/sunhornby/status/1294359066043654150
Because Friedman postulated it?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Host of some random podcast: Wouldn't it be cool if Hall signed in Toronto for $1mil?

Friedman: lol yeah

Toronto media: There's talk Taylor Hall would consider giving himself a massive paycut if it meant a chance to play with his beloved hometown [currently] Leafs

 

[herman]

... and of course the Barrie trade, which is probably going to be remembered as one of the worst in Leaf history.

This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I mean the trade definitely blew up in Dubas' face, and I know most fans (including myself) had a big emotional attachment to Kadri, but even if you completely ignored what we got from Barrie it can still boil down to trading a 2nd line centre for a (younger/cheaper/not as good) 3rd line centre. Now if we end up waiving Kerfoot or trading him for nothing then maybe, but right now there's still a ton of worse trades this franchise has made.

Stempniak for Steen and Coliacovo?
Raycroft for Rask?
Trading up for Tyler Biggs, whose picks turned out to be John Gibson and Rickard Rakell?
Kurvers for the eventual Scott Neidermayer pick?

How is this Kadri trade even in the top 5? Barrie was just a bet that went bad due to circumstance of coaching compatibility, the one that the GM was prevented from firing over the offseason.

 

[Hobbes]

... and of course the Barrie trade, which is probably going to be remembered as one of the worst in Leaf history.

This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I mean the trade definitely blew up in Dubas' face, and I know most fans (including myself) had a big emotional attachment to Kadri, but even if you completely ignored what we got from Barrie it can still boil down to trading a 2nd line centre for a (younger/cheaper/not as good) 3rd line centre. Now if we end up waiving Kerfoot or trading him for nothing then maybe, but right now there's still a ton of worse trades this franchise has made.

Stempniak for Steen and Coliacovo?
Raycroft for Rask?
Trading up for Tyler Biggs, whose picks turned out to be John Gibson and Rickard Rakell?
Kurvers for the eventual Scott Neidermayer pick?

How is this Kadri trade even in the top 5? Barrie was just a bet that went bad due to circumstance of coaching compatibility, the one that the GM was prevented from firing over the offseason.

I agree with CtB's post and would add that while it didn't work, it wasn't exactly an asinine move. I don't think anyone expected Barrie to suddenly turn into Pronger, but they also didn't expect his offense to dry up to the degree it did. I think they were expecting something along the lines of a Rielly-lite to bridge for a year until Sandin/Liljgren were ready to be promoted.

I also think Highlander's point above re the Kadri trade is right. I don't see how we could have kept him after two consecutive years where he seriously damaged our chances of advancing. Maybe we would have lost those Boston series anyway, but considering how close we came it's easy to see how he might have been the guy to push us over the top. I liked Kadri and was sorry to see him go...I hope he's learned his lesson (finally!) and does well in Colorado. I just don't see how he could have been brought back.

That being the case, and considering Kadri reportedly nixed a deal with the Oilers thanks to his limited NTC, it probably also limited to some degree what Dubas could get in return for him. Barrie + Kerf was the best he was able to do, and the jury is still out on Kerfoot. He was excellent on the PK in the CBJ series and maybe he can still grow into a decent Kadri-lite 3C at a much lower cost.

I've been a Leaf fan for 50 years...this trade barely even registers compared to some of the other bone-headed ones we've made.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

That being the case, and considering Kadri reportedly nixed a deal with the Oilers thanks to his limited NTC

edit: that was Calgary, and Kadri confirmed he blocked that trade.

 

[Kin]

You're suggesting that this player would have to be not only better than the outgoing talent, but also the level of talent that could be had with that overpayment cap space...I agree with that too.

Not just the amount that a player is overpaid, a player has to be worth the sum total of his cap figure. You might say that's obvious but that leads to the bigger flaw here which is the hypothetical existence of a player that's at once so overpaid that the Leafs could swoop in and acquire him for a greatly reduced cost in terms of talent and yet is so good that he would represent a huge talent upgrade for the team. That seems sort of on its face contradictory.

 

[Hobbes]

That being the case, and considering Kadri reportedly nixed a deal with the Oilers thanks to his limited NTC

edit: that was Calgary, and Kadri confirmed he blocked that trade.

Woops...thanks for the correction. I knew it was some western hell-hole.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/sunhornby/status/1294359066043654150
Because Friedman postulated it?

https://twitter.com/captmatthews/status/1294666430252802050

 

[Guilt Trip]

Always liked Boudreau, not Ben tho lol. Let's hope it's true.

 

[herman]

Ben is Bruce?s eldest in case you didn?t know

 

[Guilt Trip]

I didn't know that. Thx. I still don't want Ben, unless Bruce is coming!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I didn't know that. Thx. I still don't want Ben, unless Bruce is coming!

Alright, what's the deal with Ben?

 

[Guilt Trip]

I didn't know that. Thx. I still don't want Ben, unless Bruce is coming!

Alright, what's the deal with Ben?

Not sure. Theres been a rumour that father Bruce wants to come to TO and then he tweeted the above. I do know Ben is the head coach of the Fort Wayne  Komets.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I didn't know that. Thx. I still don't want Ben, unless Bruce is coming!

Alright, what's the deal with Ben?

Not sure. Theres been a rumour that father Bruce wants to come to TO and then he tweeted the above. I do know Ben is the head coach of the Fort Wayne  Komets.

Oh it sounded like you had some decades long beef with him or something.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

... and of course the Barrie trade, which is probably going to be remembered as one of the worst in Leaf history.

This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I mean the trade definitely blew up in Dubas' face, and I know most fans (including myself) had a big emotional attachment to Kadri, but even if you completely ignored what we got from Barrie it can still boil down to trading a 2nd line centre for a (younger/cheaper/not as good) 3rd line centre. Now if we end up waiving Kerfoot or trading him for nothing then maybe, but right now there's still a ton of worse trades this franchise has made.

Let's be honest here, Kadri is a 3rd line centre on the Leafs as well. Perhaps he has more offensive pop and a nastier side, but I'm not sure what else he brings that much more of then Kerfoot.  The offensive pop is barely a blip on the radar and the nasty side saw him in the press box two years in a row. Kerfoot had a very poor season, but turned it up in this return to play. If he can get back up to the 15-20 goals from his first two seasons, the offensive part is a wash.

Calling it one of the worst trades is a HUGE exaggeration.

 

[herman]

One feisty player is meaningless. You need at least two of them on a line together to have any effect (Kadri/Komarov). Finding the ones that can play in the top-9 to give you enough minutes to actually affect the complexion of the game is another thing (Ovechkin/Wilson).

 

[Phileas Fogg]

... and of course the Barrie trade, which is probably going to be remembered as one of the worst in Leaf history.

This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I mean the trade definitely blew up in Dubas' face, and I know most fans (including myself) had a big emotional attachment to Kadri, but even if you completely ignored what we got from Barrie it can still boil down to trading a 2nd line centre for a (younger/cheaper/not as good) 3rd line centre. Now if we end up waiving Kerfoot or trading him for nothing then maybe, but right now there's still a ton of worse trades this franchise has made.

Let's be honest here, Kadri is a 3rd line centre on the Leafs as well. Perhaps he has more offensive pop and a nastier side, but I'm not sure what else he brings that much more of then Kerfoot.  The offensive pop is barely a blip on the radar and the nasty side saw him in the press box two years in a row. Kerfoot had a very poor season, but turned it up in this return to play. If he can get back up to the 15-20 goals from his first two seasons, the offensive part is a wash.

Calling it one of the worst trades is a HUGE exaggeration.

Nope, I stand by it. All of the examples refuting go back to the pre-cap era, where you could buy your way out of stupidity. The implications of what the leafs did here are magnified because of their cap issues.
The leafs had a legitimate, cost controlled under a lengthy contract, 2nd line center, who was traded for a essentially a cup run player - who wasn't under contract post, and was pretty close to a disaster defensively for the season, as well as overrated offensively.

Considering the needs of the leafs were and are on defence, you can't let that substantial asset go for a single year of a bad player. It's terrible scouting and cap management. I'm not saying Kadri shouldn't have been dealt - the center position was a position of strength they could deal from and they botched it. They needed a quality defenceman back with term, which should have been totally achievable, or they "should" have won the cup, or at least made a very deep run, to make this even close to palatable.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Nope, I stand by it. All of the examples refuting go back to the pre-cap era, where you could buy your way out of stupidity.

We gave away a future Vezina winner for nothing in the cap era.

 

[Kin]

Saying "it's going to be remembered as one of the worst trades in Leafs history" and then saying "But pre-cap trades are different" is basically just saying it's going to be remembered as one of the worst trades in the last 15 years which...ok?

Personally, in terms of bad cap era trades it's still got a mountain to climb. You've got Rask/Raycroft, Steen/Stempniak, Kessel/Seguin, Toskala...

 

[ZBBM]

... and of course the Barrie trade, which is probably going to be remembered as one of the worst in Leaf history.

This feels like a bit of an overreaction. I mean the trade definitely blew up in Dubas' face, and I know most fans (including myself) had a big emotional attachment to Kadri, but even if you completely ignored what we got from Barrie it can still boil down to trading a 2nd line centre for a (younger/cheaper/not as good) 3rd line centre. Now if we end up waiving Kerfoot or trading him for nothing then maybe, but right now there's still a ton of worse trades this franchise has made.

Let's be honest here, Kadri is a 3rd line centre on the Leafs as well. Perhaps he has more offensive pop and a nastier side, but I'm not sure what else he brings that much more of then Kerfoot.  The offensive pop is barely a blip on the radar and the nasty side saw him in the press box two years in a row. Kerfoot had a very poor season, but turned it up in this return to play. If he can get back up to the 15-20 goals from his first two seasons, the offensive part is a wash.

Calling it one of the worst trades is a HUGE exaggeration.

Nope, I stand by it. All of the examples refuting go back to the pre-cap era, where you could buy your way out of stupidity. The implications of what the leafs did here are magnified because of their cap issues.
The leafs had a legitimate, cost controlled under a lengthy contract, 2nd line center, who was traded for a essentially a cup run player - who wasn't under contract post, and was pretty close to a disaster defensively for the season, as well as overrated offensively.

Considering the needs of the leafs were and are on defence, you can't let that substantial asset go for a single year of a bad player. It's terrible scouting and cap management. I'm not saying Kadri shouldn't have been dealt - the center position was a position of strength they could deal from and they botched it. They needed a quality defenceman back with term, which should have been totally achievable, or they "should" have won the cup, or at least made a very deep run, to make this even close to palatable.

Leaving aside where this ranks in terribleness, you are right on the dot: it was terrible.  The main asset coming back for our best trading chip was just about the wrongest kind of defenseman you could imagine.  Dubas had the right idea with the CGY trade he lined up; why he went 180 from that is just hard to understand.