2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Frank E]

Wait Wait Wait...hold on...Klingberg to LTIR is all good and fine.

But be don't have a problem with Jarnkrok right!!?

 

[Highlander]

Wait Wait Wait...hold on...Klingberg to LTIR is all good and fine.

But be don't have a problem with Jarnkrok right!!?

Calle has a minor injury, probably play Steeves in his place tomorrow.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

LTIR doesn't mean he's done for the season? I honestly don't think it's a good look that seemingly bad contracts end up on the LTIR in Toronto. Players may hesitate to sign a prove-it contract with Toronto, it could turn into a playing career death sentence.

They should be fine as long as they don't have a degenerative hip issue.

 

[cabber24]

LTIR doesn't mean he's done for the season? I honestly don't think it's a good look that seemingly bad contracts end up on the LTIR in Toronto. Players may hesitate to sign a prove-it contract with Toronto, it could turn into a playing career death sentence.

They should be fine as long as they don't have a degenerative hip issue.

I guess it makes sense that their worst players are terrible because they're actually hurt. Can Reeves have a flair-up of something too?

Thrilled to be able to allocate the cap somewhere else. From an on-ice perspective, this helps the Leafs immensely.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

LTIR doesn't mean he's done for the season? I honestly don't think it's a good look that seemingly bad contracts end up on the LTIR in Toronto. Players may hesitate to sign a prove-it contract with Toronto, it could turn into a playing career death sentence.

They should be fine as long as they don't have a degenerative hip issue.

I guess it makes sense that their worst players are terrible because they're actually hurt. Can Reeves have a flair-up of something too?

Thrilled to be able to allocate the cap somewhere else. From an on-ice perspective, this helps the Leafs immensely.

I mean it wouldn't be shocking at all if Reaves ends up on LTIR eventually. He's already not NHL caliber, and I have to imagine the rest of the league sees that too. So eventually push will come to shove and the Leafs will be forced to waive him. Will Reaves want to play a season or two in the AHL after 800+ NHL games, or will he say that a nagging hand injury from 20 years of punching people has made it difficult for him to hold a hockey stick and he needs to go on IR?

 

[herman]

LTIR doesn't mean he's done for the season? I honestly don't think it's a good look that seemingly bad contracts end up on the LTIR in Toronto. Players may hesitate to sign a prove-it contract with Toronto, it could turn into a playing career death sentence.

They should be fine as long as they don't have a degenerative hip issue.

I guess it makes sense that their worst players are terrible because they're actually hurt. Can Reeves have a flair-up of something too?

Thrilled to be able to allocate the cap somewhere else. From an on-ice perspective, this helps the Leafs immensely.

I mean it wouldn't be shocking at all if Reaves ends up on LTIR eventually. He's already not NHL caliber, and I have to imagine the rest of the league sees that too. So eventually push will come to shove and the Leafs will be forced to waive him. Will Reaves want to play a season or two in the AHL after 800+ NHL games, or will he say that a nagging hand injury from 20 years of punching people has made it difficult for him to hold a hockey stick and he needs to go on IR?

Weird equipment skin rash is also an option

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1728108174027419673

I do think Klingberg being perma-LTIR'd isn't a sure thing yet. My completely unqualified opinion would be they'll probably wait a month or so, maybe until January at the latest, to see if regular treatments can sort out his issues before deciding if some sort of season ending surgery would be necessary. So obviously I wouldn't expect any trades until after that. Who knows though.

 

[Highlander]

LTIR doesn't mean he's done for the season? I honestly don't think it's a good look that seemingly bad contracts end up on the LTIR in Toronto. Players may hesitate to sign a prove-it contract with Toronto, it could turn into a playing career death sentence.

They should be fine as long as they don't have a degenerative hip issue.

I guess it makes sense that their worst players are terrible because they're actually hurt. Can Reeves have a flair-up of something too?

Thrilled to be able to allocate the cap somewhere else. From an on-ice perspective, this helps the Leafs immensely.

I mean it wouldn't be shocking at all if Reaves ends up on LTIR eventually. He's already not NHL caliber, and I have to imagine the rest of the league sees that too. So eventually push will come to shove and the Leafs will be forced to waive him. Will Reaves want to play a season or two in the AHL after 800+ NHL games, or will he say that a nagging hand injury from 20 years of punching people has made it difficult for him to hold a hockey stick and he needs to go on IR?

Weird equipment skin rash is also an option

Perhaps he can be kept on as locker room DJ.

 

[Zee]

LTIR doesn't mean he's done for the season? I honestly don't think it's a good look that seemingly bad contracts end up on the LTIR in Toronto. Players may hesitate to sign a prove-it contract with Toronto, it could turn into a playing career death sentence.

They should be fine as long as they don't have a degenerative hip issue.

I guess it makes sense that their worst players are terrible because they're actually hurt. Can Reeves have a flair-up of something too?

Thrilled to be able to allocate the cap somewhere else. From an on-ice perspective, this helps the Leafs immensely.

I mean it wouldn't be shocking at all if Reaves ends up on LTIR eventually. He's already not NHL caliber, and I have to imagine the rest of the league sees that too. So eventually push will come to shove and the Leafs will be forced to waive him. Will Reaves want to play a season or two in the AHL after 800+ NHL games, or will he say that a nagging hand injury from 20 years of punching people has made it difficult for him to hold a hockey stick and he needs to go on IR?

Weird equipment skin rash is also an option

Why did they give this guy a 3 year deal again?

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1728108174027419673

I do think Klingberg being perma-LTIR'd isn't a sure thing yet. My completely unqualified opinion would be they'll probably wait a month or so, maybe until January at the latest, to see if regular treatments can sort out his issues before deciding if some sort of season ending surgery would be necessary. So obviously I wouldn't expect any trades until after that. Who knows though.

32 Thoughts

2. There will be a process for John Klingberg, Toronto and the possibility he is shut down for the season. The Maple Leafs historically are very creative with long-term injury use over the years, and not everybody loves to see it. Klingberg?s legitimately injured, believed to be his hip, something he?s dealt with before.

Unfortunately, it is worse, and even though he wants to play, he is not expected to return. However, until there is a clearer picture of treatment and road to recovery, they won?t be able to declare him unable to return. Whatever the case, there will be cap flexibility at least in the short-term.

Apparently, Friedman mentioned on his latest podcast that the Leafs had to jump through a lot of hoops to prove Murray was unable to resume play and there was a similar 'quiet' period around his status during the offseason, so we're likely getting a similar situation with Klingberg. I haven't heard that segment myself yet.

 

[Arn]

Hips don?t lie

 

[herman]

https://x.com/lesbianylander/status/1728141846579433789
I heartily endorse everything about this, except for a) the Rogers network (and the collusion involved in getting just their network on the ttc lines) b) doing phone stuff without headphones.

 

[herman]

https://x.com/itsmitchmarney/status/1728484449933742234
Willy calling out Marner?s good pass

https://x.com/jonassiegel/status/1728467073590808793
Sheldon calling out the other parts of Marner?s game

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Given the need to upgrade in goal and defence to stand a chance of doing anything special in the playoffs, is there the potential for us to accept these flaws and cash in on Bertuzzi or/and Domi in February for assets (that could be re-used at the deadline in other trades that help improve the D, in the summer, or to stock the pipeline) and then see how the rest of the season goes? Or does it send the wrong message and instead they just ride through to the summer, maybe make the playoffs second round at best with a fair bit of luck and upgrade then using the cap space from those two, Samsonov and Brodie coming off?

We'd presumably need to sign Nylander to a new contract before considering option 1. But I'be tempted to trade those two if it means having a much better chance in 24/25, since it doesn't look like the Leafs will be close to a serious contender this season (accepting it's not even December yet).

 

[cw]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1728108174027419673

I do think Klingberg being perma-LTIR'd isn't a sure thing yet. My completely unqualified opinion would be they'll probably wait a month or so, maybe until January at the latest, to see if regular treatments can sort out his issues before deciding if some sort of season ending surgery would be necessary. So obviously I wouldn't expect any trades until after that. Who knows though.

32 Thoughts

2. There will be a process for John Klingberg, Toronto and the possibility he is shut down for the season. The Maple Leafs historically are very creative with long-term injury use over the years, and not everybody loves to see it. Klingberg?s legitimately injured, believed to be his hip, something he?s dealt with before.

Unfortunately, it is worse, and even though he wants to play, he is not expected to return. However, until there is a clearer picture of treatment and road to recovery, they won?t be able to declare him unable to return. Whatever the case, there will be cap flexibility at least in the short-term.

Apparently, Friedman mentioned on his latest podcast that the Leafs had to jump through a lot of hoops to prove Murray was unable to resume play and there was a similar 'quiet' period around his status during the offseason, so we're likely getting a similar situation with Klingberg. I haven't heard that segment myself yet.

If one were in Klingberg's situation, they would be getting medical opinions. That takes time. They have to do whatever to investigate the problem. Maybe take a minimally invasive look surgically. Depending on the news, which Klingberg probably is already aware of in terms of possibilities (like most people, recurring hip problems are not good for hockey players), then he might see specialists who maybe have a new approaches to try for example. Could he be patched up to the end of the season without further risk? - questions like that have to be answered. It is not until all of that is done and documented with a pretty little bow that the Leafs can go to the league and say he's done for the season - if that is the conclusion. Strong medical evidence and corroborating medical opinion that takes time to collect is going to settle the issue. And then the league has to look it over and bless it after their questions are answered. That takes more time.

Performance and return to sport after hip arthroscopy for femoracetabular impingement syndrome in National Hockey League players

I do not know if "femoroacetabular (hip) impingement" is what Klingberg suffered from.

It is not uncommon
Hip Impingement in Hockey Players

That graph shows hip impingement surgery results for NHLers.
Klingberg had double hip surgery in 2014 (I don't know what kind of surgery).
In that graph, all players careers ended within 10 years of the hip impingement surgery (again, I don't know if that is what Klingberg had done). There is resurfacing but I think those outcomes are worse. Klingberg is in year ten.
There is also the possibility, the docs have improved at doing this surgery.
But no one is going to fall off their chair in shock if Klingberg is done for the season (and maybe his career). They already have some evidence of possible outcomes.

And yes, it begs the question of why the Leafs signed him when on top of that, some of his stats had been in significant decline for a while (ie constantly at the bottom of his teams +/-). Likely, when the musical chairs music stopped for UFA dman, the Leafs were left standing and they were pretty desperate. So they gambled knowing LTIR that they could afford could bail them out. That would be my guess.

 

[Goaliedave31]

I still don't understand why they signed Klingberg instead of Dumba. Definitely makes one question Treliving's ability to assess the needs of this team.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I still don't understand why they signed Klingberg instead of Dumba. Definitely makes one question Treliving's ability to assess the needs of this team.

From EF...

"I think the guy they really wanted on July 1st was Dumba," Friedman said. "I think they were in on him. Klingberg came in at $4.15 million, Dumba ended up in Arizona for $3.9 million, but I think at the time he was high in the fives (5 million range). I think Toronto really wanted him and they couldn't get the deal done because they couldn't fit Dumba where he wanted to be...

"He was the guy (Toronto) talked to. He was the guy they wanted. But they couldn't fit him in for what he was asking."

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I still don't understand why they signed Klingberg instead of Dumba. Definitely makes one question Treliving's ability to assess the needs of this team.

From EF...

"I think the guy they really wanted on July 1st was Dumba," Friedman said. "I think they were in on him. Klingberg came in at $4.15 million, Dumba ended up in Arizona for $3.9 million, but I think at the time he was high in the fives (5 million range). I think Toronto really wanted him and they couldn't get the deal done because they couldn't fit Dumba where he wanted to be...

"He was the guy (Toronto) talked to. He was the guy they wanted. But they couldn't fit him in for what he was asking."

For whatever it's worth Dumba also hasn't been very good this season, to the point where he was healthy scratched in Arizona's last game. Maybe not quite Klingberg-bad but presumably he's not playing on one or two bum hips.

 

[herman]

Erik Gustafsson would?ve been the offensive puck mover to keep. Cheap, plays both positions, can move up the lineup for a spell or two. Would?ve enjoyed the Sweden trip.

 

[dappleganger]

Erik Gustafsson would?ve been the offensive puck mover to keep. Cheap, plays both positions, can move up the lineup for a spell or two. Would?ve enjoyed the Sweden trip.

Exactly my thoughts. If Treliving wanted an offensive why not bring back Gustafsson? Gustafsson at $1m would have been WAY better than Klingberg at $4.15m.

Possibly would have left room to sign another defensemen like Schenn perhaps.