2023-24 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[cw]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1757085769578025037

One thing worth watching here is how Brodie performs back on the left side. I've been thinking for a little bit now that some parts of his struggles could possibly be attributed to playing on the right. Playing his off side used to be his bread and butter but that's a lot tougher to do once your skating takes a dip like it has for him.

They seem to be resisting the McCabe-Brodie pairing
They did really well after the trade - apparently they had great stats ... near the top of the league
then the playoffs and into the toilet ...

Brodie may have the best stick of any Leafs dman I ever saw play.
He made me appreciate that skill more than I ever did previously.

Hopefully, they can figure out pairings to get them through this suspension.

I still have a little hope that Lagesson might be able to help ...

Forwards definitely have to be on their best defensive behavior

Rielly is 1 point behind Tim Horton for 3rd all time among Leafs dmen scoring ...

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1757118939434283217

I've spent more time than I'd like to admit this past week wondering if a bottom-6 forward group made entirely out of players who cleared waivers this season would be an improvement over the bottom-6 forward group we've used for the past 3 games. Toninato was a guy I would have probably had on my "all-waivers" team and he just cleared it for the 3rd time this season.

I guess my point is I'm surprised the team seems perfectly content with some of the players playing there despite their abysmal on-ice results almost all season.

 

[cw]

https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1757114163191525835

From other reports, Giordano seems more iffy than Kampf

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1757118939434283217

I've spent more time than I'd like to admit this past week wondering if a bottom-6 forward group made entirely out of players who cleared waivers this season would be an improvement over the bottom-6 forward group we've used for the past 3 games. Toninato was a guy I would have probably had on my "all-waivers" team and he just cleared it for the 3rd time this season.

I guess my point is I'm surprised the team seems perfectly content with some of the players playing there despite their abysmal on-ice results almost all season.

Don?t try this with the players we lost on waivers or traded because they had no role here the past three years because it?s very sad.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Don't try this with the players we lost on waivers or traded because they had no role here the past three years because it's very sad.

I actually had one done specifically with former Leafs who cleared waivers just this season on other teams:

Zohorna-Boyd-Anderson
ZAR-Toninato-NAK

Zohorna is the weak spot there of course but honestly aside from that it's really not half bad. Got lucky with Boyd being on waivers for some reason at the start of the season. I'd definitely take ZAR back right now. And in hindsight we probably gave up on Aube-Kubel a little too quickly last season. He seemed to fit in well with the Caps and basically became everything we hoped he'd be after a rough start here.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1757437610320945590

Horrible break for Timmins here, who would have likely had a great shot of playing some minutes and maybe even PP1 time while Rielly was out.

 

[bustaheims]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1757437610320945590

Horrible break for Timmins here, who would have likely had a great shot of playing some minutes and maybe even PP1 time while Rielly was out.

Dude just can?t catch a break.

 

[Highlander]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1757437610320945590

Horrible break for Timmins here, who would have likely had a great shot of playing some minutes and maybe even PP1 time while Rielly was out.

Dude just can?t catch a break.

To bad, he has shown flashes of some real talent at times.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1757437610320945590

Horrible break for Timmins here, who would have likely had a great shot of playing some minutes and maybe even PP1 time while Rielly was out.

Dude just can?t catch a break.

I don't think I know anyone who's ever had mono but lots of hockey players seem to catch it. Watch out who you're kissing out there boys

 

[Frank E]

I know there's nothing scientific here, but can you point to many players that have really developed well under Keefe, other than the superstar talents?

 

[Bender]

I know there's nothing scientific here, but can you point to many players that have really developed well under Keefe, other than the superstar talents?

Couldn't we say that for like, most of our picks ever? Like how often have we ever had a player who wasn't a high first rounder do anything really noteworthy? Like, I love Kaberle, but if he's arguably 1-3 best on our non-first rounders then we've done really, really poor drafting pretty much forever.

 

[cw]

I know there's nothing scientific here, but can you point to many players that have really developed well under Keefe, other than the superstar talents?

Couldn't we say that for like, most of our picks ever? Like how often have we ever had a player who wasn't a high first rounder do anything really noteworthy? Like, I love Kaberle, but if he's arguably 1-3 best on our non-first rounders then we've done really, really poor drafting pretty much forever.

On hockeydb, I sorted original 6 picks by descending points. The vast majority were in the top 3-4 rounds. Rangers of all teams seemed to have more exceptions followed by Chicago - at a glance - I didn't count them - could have missed something. Doing that overlooks dmen & goalies - so far from perfect. But the Leafs seemed roughly similar for what they picked (ignoring draft schmaft, etc) I stopped at about .5ppg or so. With the advanced stats & technology, I suspect all teams are only going to get better.

I think a lot of GMs are still trying to learn how to function in the cap system and how to value their draft picks. I'm sure they're getting better at it as time goes on. But I do not get the sense anyone has really mastered it yet. For the armchair GMs at home, it seems harder than ever to figure some of this out.

 

[Joe S.]

I know there's nothing scientific here, but can you point to many players that have really developed well under Keefe, other than the superstar talents?

Shouldn?t that be the job of the development layers of the organization and not the major league? It always confused me why, for example, a goalie who has made it all the way to the nhl now all of a sudden needs a goalie coach and to be ?developed?. You?ve gone through coaches and development your whole life to make it to this level, and now you need to learn a new way of being a goalie?

I get the concept of refinement, but development at the major league level seems a little odd to me.

 

[bustaheims]

I know there's nothing scientific here, but can you point to many players that have really developed well under Keefe, other than the superstar talents?

Shouldn?t that be the job of the development layers of the organization and not the major league? It always confused me why, for example, a goalie who has made it all the way to the nhl now all of a sudden needs a goalie coach and to be ?developed?. You?ve gone through coaches and development your whole life to make it to this level, and now you need to learn a new way of being a goalie?

I get the concept of refinement, but development at the major league level seems a little odd to me.

Agreed. Other than working on specific skills or aspects of the game, by the time you?re a full-time NHLer, the majority of your development should be done. At that point, it?s about learning how to employ your talents in an effect manner - and that?s as much on the player as it is on the coaching staff.

 

[Kin]

Shouldn?t that be the job of the development layers of the organization and not the major league? It always confused me why, for example, a goalie who has made it all the way to the nhl now all of a sudden needs a goalie coach and to be ?developed?. You?ve gone through coaches and development your whole life to make it to this level, and now you need to learn a new way of being a goalie?

I get the concept of refinement, but development at the major league level seems a little odd to me.

I don't think it's a binary either/or kind of thing. A player in the NHL's skill development isn't going to be the responsibility of the NHL coaching staff but using him in the right situations to foster development, the mental/motivational aspect of coaching and addressing challenges that come up as players need to make adjustments are sort of in that realm.

 

[herman]

Trevor Moore, Mason Marchment, Justin Holl, Kasperi Kapanen, Zach Hyman, Timothy Liljegren all developed under Keefe with the Marlies. Liljegren and Kapanen were the only 1st rdrs.

 

[Frank E]

Trevor Moore, Mason Marchment, Justin Holl, Kasperi Kapanen, Zach Hyman, Timothy Liljegren all developed under Keefe with the Marlies. Liljegren and Kapanen were the only 1st rdrs.

Let's leave Holl and Kapanen out of this for obvious reasons...and honestly I don't think they've done shit with Liljegren's skillset.

Moore, Marchment, and Hyman each went to teams where they've flourished and developed into great players.  They were not those players when they left the Leafs.

 

[Joe S.]

Trevor Moore, Mason Marchment, Justin Holl, Kasperi Kapanen, Zach Hyman, Timothy Liljegren all developed under Keefe with the Marlies. Liljegren and Kapanen were the only 1st rdrs.

Let's leave Holl and Kapanen out of this for obvious reasons...and honestly I don't think they've done shit with Liljegren's skillset.

Moore, Marchment, and Hyman each went to teams where they've flourished and developed into great players.  They were not those players when they left the Leafs.

Yeah it?s a shame that the leafs didn?t have mcdavid to help hyman out in Toronto

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I know there's nothing scientific here, but can you point to many players that have really developed well under Keefe, other than the superstar talents?

Bobby McMann, duh.

 

[Chris]

Trevor Moore, Mason Marchment, Justin Holl, Kasperi Kapanen, Zach Hyman, Timothy Liljegren all developed under Keefe with the Marlies. Liljegren and Kapanen were the only 1st rdrs.

Let's leave Holl and Kapanen out of this for obvious reasons...and honestly I don't think they've done shit with Liljegren's skillset.

Moore, Marchment, and Hyman each went to teams where they've flourished and developed into great players.  They were not those players when they left the Leafs.

Hyman was playing at a roughly 30 goal/60 point pace his last 2 seasons with the Leafs, both seasons that were unfortunately shortened due to injuries (which also severely impacted his postseason performance). He was driving his own line at times. His play really developed and improved during his time with the Leafs. I remember referring to him as an "offensive black hole" in the early years as plays would so often die on his stick. That was not the case later on.

Moore and Marchment, yeah...the Leafs (i.e. Keefe) should probably have gotten more out of them. I wonder if we'll be saying that about someone like McMann or Holmberg in a few years.

I've never understood "the plan" with Liljegren.