2023 Training Camp Thread

[herman]

I'd go with option 1 and try to bag an emergency recall at some point.

 

[herman]

https://x.com/nine2schenn/status/1707395219124052008
Look who remembered it was photo day this year lol

 

[ZBBM]

They aren't waiving Giordano, I'm pretty sure.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

They aren't waiving Giordano, I'm pretty sure.

It's pretty unlikely right now yeah. But if the Leafs do start the season with just 6D on the roster and can't find a way to create more space they could be put in a tough position eventually if Giordano's age starts to show later in the season. Not sure how many 40-year old defencemen have played 82 games in the past.

Granted I think it would be more of a Simmonds-like thing where they don't actually report to the Marlies.

 

[rdowdall]

Four options for keeping Timmins:

1) Start the season with 11/7 line-up: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner Knies-Tavares-Lafferty Domi-Nylander-Jarnkrok Kampf-Reaves Rielly-Brodie McCabe-Klingberg Giordano-Liljegren Timmins Samsonov Woll $302,717 cap space	2) Waive Giordano instead of Timmins: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner Knies-Tavares-Lafferty Domi-Nylander-Jarnkrok Gregor-Kampf-Reaves Rielly-Liljegren McCabe-Klingberg Brodie-Timmins Samsonov Woll $327,717 cap space
3) Make a trade. Jarnkrok is the only reasonable option here as moving Lafferty would not open up enough cap space: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner Knies-Tavares-Robertson Domi-Nylander-Lafferty Gregor-Kampf-Reaves Rielly-Brodie McCabe-Klingberg Giordano-Liljegren Timmins Samsonov Woll $831,050 in cap space	4) LTIR? Obviously don't want to hope for an injury but if something comes up before the end of training camp that puts a higher salary guy on LTIR for 4 weeks that could at least delay the decision for awhile.

Option 1 is probably the most likely as things stand, even if it's just a temporary measure.

Option 2 is a tough one. For all the (deserved) criticism Giordano took during the playoffs he was a solid defenceman for us last season, especially considering he had to essentially replace Muzzin for most of it. Looking at this objectively though losing Timmins over Gio doesn't make a lot of sense, particularly when you consider Timmins can be a long-term asset and this is almost certainly Giordano's final season in the NHL. Looking at it emotionally though, that's a tough thing to do to a well-liked veteran. Team also goes down a PK defender and forces Timmins or Klingberg to take on minutes if anyone else is in the box.

Option 3 seems to be the default armchair GM move and I get why but losing Jarnkrok would really put a massive dent into our teams overall defence and with Willy at C (which obviously isn't guaranteed yet) it makes our wing depth even weaker. Robertson stepping up could alleviate that 2nd concern at least.

I think this is one of the underrated areas where being up against the cap hurts you.  You have to make decisions based on limited game knowledge. 

In an ideal world the Leafs could carry Timmins along with Liljegren and see how they perform in the regular season before making a decision on which one to go with.

Now however, they have to make a cut somewhere just to ice a team, and the chances that they make the wrong cut are probably a little higher because you have less in game data to go on.

 

[herman]

They'll need a lot of roster flexibility for the Sweden trip. Trading Jarnkrok out of that to make it happen would be a tough move.

 

[Frank E]

They aren't waiving Giordano, I'm pretty sure.

It's pretty unlikely right now yeah. But if the Leafs do start the season with just 6D on the roster and can't find a way to create more space they could be put in a tough position eventually if Giordano's age starts to show later in the season. Not sure how many 40-year old defencemen have played 82 games in the past.

Granted I think it would be more of a Simmonds-like thing where they don't actually report to the Marlies.

What if it's like a Spezza thing where he just tells everyone he'll retire if you take him?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What if it's like a Spezza thing where he just tells everyone he'll retire if you take him?

Maybe, but the Spezza thing was different because him being waived was pretty clearly just a temporary move for cap reasons. Spezza didn't end up missing a single game after he cleared waivers and actually went on to play in all but 2 games that entire season.

Giordano getting waived for performance reasons would be completely different. Maybe he is 100% Toronto or bust, but I also wouldn't exactly hold it against him if he would rather get claimed and continue being a full-time NHLer elsewhere vs. just hanging around Toronto's practice rink for most of the season like Simmonds did. But of course if he is getting waived for performance issues that just makes it less likely someone would put in a claim on him.

 

[Highlander]

So far:

I think Minten and Cowan have fine futures with the team, Cowan needs at least one more season with the Knights. Very impressed with Liljegren, Timmons (no way he doesn't start with this team), Kokonnen has played well, was impressed with Klingburg.  Giordano is washed up, and take Reeves with you on they way out. Also close to retirement: Brodie, Tavares.

Also impressing; Robertson, Knies, Gregor,Domi, Bertuzzi. And Nylander of course.

Topi needs a good year in the AHL of seasoning, glad the pressure is off him a bit to let him develop.

Hirvanon need a season in the AhL at least.



Goaltending so far, no comment. 

 

[princedpw]

Four options for keeping Timmins:

1) Start the season with 11/7 line-up: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner Knies-Tavares-Lafferty Domi-Nylander-Jarnkrok Kampf-Reaves Rielly-Brodie McCabe-Klingberg Giordano-Liljegren Timmins Samsonov Woll $302,717 cap space	2) Waive Giordano instead of Timmins: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner Knies-Tavares-Lafferty Domi-Nylander-Jarnkrok Gregor-Kampf-Reaves Rielly-Liljegren McCabe-Klingberg Brodie-Timmins Samsonov Woll $327,717 cap space
3) Make a trade. Jarnkrok is the only reasonable option here as moving Lafferty would not open up enough cap space: Bertuzzi-Matthews-Marner Knies-Tavares-Robertson Domi-Nylander-Lafferty Gregor-Kampf-Reaves Rielly-Brodie McCabe-Klingberg Giordano-Liljegren Timmins Samsonov Woll $831,050 in cap space	4) LTIR? Obviously don't want to hope for an injury but if something comes up before the end of training camp that puts a higher salary guy on LTIR for 4 weeks that could at least delay the decision for awhile.

Option 1 is probably the most likely as things stand, even if it's just a temporary measure.

Option 2 is a tough one. For all the (deserved) criticism Giordano took during the playoffs he was a solid defenceman for us last season, especially considering he had to essentially replace Muzzin for most of it. Looking at this objectively though losing Timmins over Gio doesn't make a lot of sense, particularly when you consider Timmins can be a long-term asset and this is almost certainly Giordano's final season in the NHL. Looking at it emotionally though, that's a tough thing to do to a well-liked veteran. Team also goes down a PK defender and forces Timmins or Klingberg to take on minutes if anyone else is in the box.

Option 3 seems to be the default armchair GM move and I get why but losing Jarnkrok would really put a massive dent into our teams overall defence and with Willy at C (which obviously isn't guaranteed yet) it makes our wing depth even weaker. Robertson stepping up could alleviate that 2nd concern at least.

The armchair GM move is sending Reaves down in a paper move until injuries open up space, which they will.

The injury to Klingberg reminds us that no team has ever had 6 defensemen play all 82 games. Our 7th D will probably play 60 games.  We can?t lose Timmons only to want him back in 2 weeks. It makes no sense. Rather play 11 forwards than that.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The armchair GM move is sending Reaves down in a paper move until injuries open up space, which they will.

If it makes you feel any better, even if they waived Reaves (which 100% is not happening) there still wouldn't be enough cap space to keep Timmins up on a 21-man roster.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Also close to retirement: Brodie, Tavares.

While people continue to push Tavares out the door, he quietly put up his 4th highest goal total in his career last year, his 5th highest point total and his 5th ppg season. As much as he may not be worth his salary anymore, he's certainly still a valuable, contributing piece on any team in the league.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Also close to retirement: Brodie, Tavares.

While people continue to push Tavares out the door, he quietly put up his 4th highest goal total in his career last year, his 5th highest point total and his 5th ppg season. As much as he may not be worth his salary anymore, he's certainly still a valuable, contributing piece on any team in the league.

His cap hit seems to blind people that he's actually a pretty good player....still.

 

[Frank E]

Also close to retirement: Brodie, Tavares.

While people continue to push Tavares out the door, he quietly put up his 4th highest goal total in his career last year, his 5th highest point total and his 5th ppg season. As much as he may not be worth his salary anymore, he's certainly still a valuable, contributing piece on any team in the league.

His cap hit seems to blind people that he's actually a pretty good player....still.

Much of the criticism comes from the fact that he's 91st in the league at EVP last season.  He was 49th in 19-20.

Though he's gone from 30th in the league in PPP in 19-20, to 7th in the league last season.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/jonassiegel/status/1708173448311079128
Lmao *sobs*

 

[Zee]

That sucks

 

[herman]

https://x.com/joshuakloke/status/1708335653212111116

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Also close to retirement: Brodie, Tavares.

While people continue to push Tavares out the door, he quietly put up his 4th highest goal total in his career last year, his 5th highest point total and his 5th ppg season. As much as he may not be worth his salary anymore, he's certainly still a valuable, contributing piece on any team in the league.

His cap hit seems to blind people that he's actually a pretty good player....still.

Much of the criticism comes from the fact that he's 91st in the league at EVP last season.  He was 49th in 19-20.

Though he's gone from 30th in the league in PPP in 19-20, to 7th in the league last season.

Much of the criticism from fans that actually follow those stats may be right to criticize. That said, 90% of fans don't even know that EVP stands for Electric Vehicle Purification

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't think enough was said about just how good Tavares was on the powerplay last season. He had a career year on the PP at the age of 32. 18 goals and 39 points, was 7th in the league in both stats. His previous career high was 13 PP goals and 31 points, and that came all the way back in the 14/15 season when he earned his 2nd Hart trophy nomination. As a Leaf he averaged 11 PP goals and 23 points per 82 games prior to last season, so he almost nearly doubled that.

He was also 5th in the entire league in powerplay shots last season, behind just Pasta, McDavid, Drai, and MacKinnon. He had 103 shots when his previous career best was just 77. As a Leaf he averaged just 63 PP shots per 82 games prior, so that was a massive increase.

His time as a 5-on-5 star might be over but the Leafs can still squeeze some very productive years out of his career if they continue to use him on the powerplay like they did last season and rely on him less as a 2C with either a move to wing or a bump down the line-up.

 

[Bender]

I don't think enough was said about just how good Tavares was on the powerplay last season. He had a career year on the PP at the age of 32. 18 goals and 39 points, was 7th in the league in both stats. His previous career high was 13 PP goals and 31 points, and that came all the way back in the 14/15 season when he earned his 2nd Hart trophy nomination. As a Leaf he averaged 11 PP goals and 23 points per 82 games prior to last season, so he almost nearly doubled that.

He was also 5th in the entire league in powerplay shots last season, behind just Pasta, McDavid, Drai, and MacKinnon. He had 103 shots when his previous career best was just 77. As a Leaf he averaged just 63 PP shots per 82 games prior, so that was a massive increase.

His time as a 5-on-5 star might be over but the Leafs can still squeeze some very productive years out of his career if they continue to use him on the powerplay like they did last season and rely on him less as a 2C with either a move to wing or a bump down the line-up.

Part of me isn't sure how to feel about this. I mean, on the face of it it doesn't seem sustainable while his drop in 5v5 production does. He has to remain elite on the PP if he wants to be a contributor for us...