2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[cw]

Carolina and Toronto engaged in a conversation around trading Rantanen. Carolina's initial ask was Marner for Rantenan.
Leafs wanted Rantanen long term and were ready to go up to 12-13M x 8.

Leafs asked Marner if he'd waive his NMC for Carolina and he said no, so Leafs pivoted to offering Minten, Cowan, 2026 1st and 2027 1st. Carolina said, no thanks (not wanting to trade in conference either).

There has been a consistent response from Marner his whole career: he wants to play in Toronto.
He reaffirmed that last May and was willing to get talks underway at that time.
Then things went wild in the media, blaming Marner for the playoffs, speculating a trade and the team didn't do much to tamp that down for quite some time - maybe hoping it would improve their negotiating position with a player devalued in the media.
Treliving floated maybe moving on from Marner. Unlike Matthews & Nylander, signing Marner was not declared a priority.
Marner's camp was consistent: they would not waive his no movement clause and contract negotiations could happen with his agent during the season but Marner would not be commenting on them.

So I do not get why they would bother him with the Rantanen deal.
They told Leafs management repeatedly they did not want to waive his no movement clause nor have distractions during the season and that he wanted to remain in Toronto.
Marner's wife is pregnant - not a great time to take off to another city away from both their families.
In July, Marner can pick wherever he wants to go for a King's ransom.
It struck me as a tone deaf, stupid query made by desperate or foolish management.

To me, this is where it is going:
Marner is holding nearly all the cards as he always was over the last couple of years.
His agent loves to go to free agency to get maximum return for his client.
There are only 6 UFA forwards aged 32 or younger currently available with ppg .55 or better - probably less by July 1.
So it will be a massive bidding war for his services - a top 10 scorer for nothing but money.
They'll hold an auction, get a crazy high number, offer the Leafs a moderate home town discount and tell them to take it or lose him for nothing.
He owes them no favors after how they have treated him since last May.

The Leafs played games with him last summer. What goes around comes around.

 

[Guilt Trip]

There has been a consistent response from Marner his whole career: he wants to play in Toronto.
He reaffirmed that last May and was willing to get talks underway at that time.
Then things went wild in the media, blaming Marner for the playoffs, speculating a trade and the team didn't do much to tamp that down for quite some time - maybe hoping it would improve their negotiating position with a player devalued in the media.
Treliving floated maybe moving on from Marner. Unlike Matthews & Nylander, signing Marner was not declared a priority.
Marner's camp was consistent: they would not waive his no movement clause and contract negotiations could happen with his agent during the season but Marner would not be commenting on them.

So I do not get why they would bother him with the Rantanen deal.
They told Leafs management repeatedly they did not want to waive his no movement clause nor have distractions during the season and that he wanted to remain in Toronto.
Marner's wife is pregnant - not a great time to take off to another city away from both their families.
In July, Marner can pick wherever he wants to go for a King's ransom.
It struck me as a tone deaf, stupid query made by desperate or foolish management.

To me, this is where it is going:
Marner is holding nearly all the cards as he always was over the last couple of years.
His agent loves to go to free agency to get maximum return for his client.
There are only 6 UFA forwards aged 32 or younger currently available with ppg .55 or better - probably less by July 1.
So it will be a massive bidding war for his services - a top 10 scorer for nothing but money.
They'll hold an auction, get a crazy high number, offer the Leafs a moderate home town discount and tell them to take it or lose him for nothing.
He owes them no favors after how they have treated him since last May.

The Leafs played games with him last summer. What goes around comes around.

Well said CW. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Bullfrog]

....
Marner's wife is pregnant - not a great time to take off to another city away from both their families.
In July, Marner can pick wherever he wants to go for a King's ransom.
It struck me as a tone deaf, stupid query made by desperate or foolish management.
...

In fairness, we don't really have any clue on what's been said. I was once in a situation where something "I said" was relayed. It wasn't sensational or negative, but I was really surprised how inaccurate it was. Since then, I have close to zero faith anything in the public is accurate or faithfully presented. At the very least, I understand that context and subtlety are trimmed away from the truth.

I mean, my wife and I were having relationship troubles. I asked: "should we consider separating or do we want to work on repairing the relationship?." Moral: tone deaf to you or not, you need to ask, even if you're 99% sure what the answer will be.

 

[herman]

Defending Marner by making him sound like a super sensitive pissbaby?

 

[Guilt Trip]

In fairness, we don't really have any clue on what's been said. I was once in a situation where something "I said" was relayed. It wasn't sensational or negative, but I was really surprised how inaccurate it was. Since then, I have close to zero faith anything in the public is accurate or faithfully presented. At the very least, I understand that context and subtlety are trimmed away from the truth.

I mean, my wife and I were having relationship troubles. I asked: "should we consider separating or do we want to work on repairing the relationship?." Moral: tone deaf to you or not, you need to ask, even if you're 99% sure what the answer will be.

CJ on Overdrive today said there have been no contracts offered or talked about yet and pretty much it's not going to happen until the season is long over.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899246241940230308

 

[cw]

In fairness, we don't really have any clue on what's been said. I was once in a situation where something "I said" was relayed. It wasn't sensational or negative, but I was really surprised how inaccurate it was. Since then, I have close to zero faith anything in the public is accurate or faithfully presented. At the very least, I understand that context and subtlety are trimmed away from the truth.

I mean, my wife and I were having relationship troubles. I asked: "should we consider separating or do we want to work on repairing the relationship?." Moral: tone deaf to you or not, you need to ask, even if you're 99% sure what the answer will be.

Both Marner and Treliving have acknowledged the gist of what happened.
The Leafs pitched a trade.
Marner has said many, many, many, many times (paraphrased) "I want to play in Toronto"
We don't know the specific words of thise recent exchanges but the fact the Leafs ignored his desire to remain in Toronto and pitched the trade anyway is an action both parties admit the Leafs took.
That action is an affront to what Marner has said publicly he wanted many times.

He might be catching on to "You know what? These guys don't really want me here"
Why would you make a pitch like that if you were hoping he would stay?

Maybe it has reached the point after so many hints that they're not 100% sold on him hanging around where he's fed up and looking like he's going to move on this summer to a place that appreciates him so they had nothing to lose.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Both Marner and Treliving have acknowledged the gist of what happened.
The Leafs pitched a trade.
Marner has said many, many, many, many times (paraphrased) "I want to play in Toronto"
We don't know the specific words of thise recent exchanges but the fact the Leafs ignored his desire to remain in Toronto and pitched the trade anyway is an action both parties admit the Leafs took.
That action is an affront to what Marner has said publicly he wanted many times.

He might be catching on to "You know what? These guys don't really want me here"
Why would you make a pitch like that if you were hoping he would stay?

Maybe it has reached the point after so many hints that they're not 100% sold on him hanging around where he's fed up and looking like he's going to move on this summer to a place that appreciates him so they had nothing to lose.

Treliving has a hockey team to run. If Mitch's desire is to continue being a Leaf past this season, he sure isn't acting like it.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Treliving has a hockey team to run. If Mitch's desire is to continue being a Leaf past this season, he sure isn't acting like it.

And how's that?

 

[Bullfrog]

Maybe it has reached the point after so many hints that they're not 100% sold on him hanging around where he's fed up and looking like he's going to move on this summer to a place that appreciates him so they had nothing to lose.

Discussing a trade option does not equal admitting you don't want him here.

I find it a bit bizarre how much people, including you, are reading into this. We really have zero idea how the conversation went.

I'm quite confident the Maple Leafs appreciate him. I'm quite confident Marner knows this and has been told this by his GM. I'm also confident Marner understands the business side of things, including a GM approaching him with information he's received regarding a trade offer. The GM can genuinely appreciate Marner and even desperately want him to stay; but to quote Ozzie, it'd be negligent to not explore options as they arise.

If I'm Treliving's boss and find out he was offered Rantanen etc for Marner and didn't ask the question, I'd be having some pretty serious conversations.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

And how's that?

What's the hold up? We don't know for certain. I'm sure by now Treliving has asked for numbers. It seems as though, according to reports that Marner's camp doesn't want to negotiate during the season. Why? Many players sign in the last year of their contract. But somehow Mitch can't do that. I would think if Treliving has some sort of idea of what's going on with Marner, he wouldn't ask him to waive his no trade.

So it takes two to Tango. Maybe Treliving fumbled the negotiations last summer. I don't know. The entire situation just seems kinda weird.

His agent has him conviced to go to July 1. Get some crazy offers and go back to the Leafs and say, here, this is what we want. That's his right. But it doesn't really show he wants to remain a Leaf above all else.

 

[Guilt Trip]

What's the hold up? We don't know for certain. I'm sure by now Treliving has asked for numbers. It seems as though, according to reports that Marner's camp doesn't want to negotiate during the season. Why? Many players sign in the last year of their contract. But somehow Mitch can't do that. I would think if Treliving has some sort of idea of what's going on with Marner, he wouldn't ask him to waive his no trade.

So it takes two to Tango. Maybe Treliving fumbled the negotiations last summer. I don't know. The entire situation just seems kinda weird.

His agent has him conviced to go to July 1. Get some crazy offers and go back to the Leafs and say, here, this is what we want. That's his right. But it doesn't really show he wants to remain a Leaf above all else.

He's exercising his right and trying to maximize what will be probably his biggest and last meaningful contract. He's not doing anything wrong but being treated like he has been. So it seems at one point they were open to negotiating during the season. CJ said today that there have been no offers or talks. What changed if that's the case? Again Marner's camp has said nothing lately.

Here's a blip from a SN article on Sept 24 2024....

One thing that’s become very clear is the public perception of Marner is very different than his teammates’ perception of him. (More on this at a later date.) We taped an interview that will air during the first intermission of Sunday’s pre-season game against Ottawa. He did answer one contract question: Some players feel very strongly that once the puck drops on the regular season, there should be no negotiations. Does he feel that way?
“I don't know if I would say that,” he answered. “But I think for my sake, unless it gets really important or (I’m) really needed, I’m going to let my agent and Brad do all the talking and figure stuff out. I'm just going to focus on playing hockey and trying to help this team win games.”

 

[Guilt Trip]

I don't listen to this guy but someone sent it to me...first time I've actually agreed with him 100%.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899257779489038512

 

[Bender]

Steve Dangle on the pod really isn't that bad.

 

[cw]

I don't listen to this guy but someone sent it to me...first time I've actually agreed with him 100%.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899257779489038512

Sportsnet: Marner excited at thought of joining (being drafted by the) Maple Leafs

When asked if he’d like to be drafted by the Toronto Maple Leafs, London Knights star Mitch Marner doesn’t sugarcoat his answer.

“That would be a dream come true for me personally,” Marner told Dean Blundell & Co. on Sportsnet 590 The Fan Monday.

He's been saying the same thing for ten years.

 

[Bender]

Marner is the only one we have to treat with kid gloves.

 

[L K]

In lighter news, we are in the end-game:

​

GAMES​	TORONTO (39-22-3 81p)​	FLORIDA (40-21-3 83p)​	TAMPA (37-22-4 78p)​
Game 64​	@Hockey Club (WIN)​	Sabres (WIN)​	@Hurricanes​
Game 65​	Panthers​	@Bruins​	@Flyers​
Game 66​	Senators​	@Maple Leafs​	@Bruins​
Game 67​	Flames​	@Canadiens​	Flyers​
Game 68​	Avalanche​	@Islanders​	@Stars​
Game 69​	@Rangers​	@Blue Jackets​	@Hockey Club​
Game 70​	@Predators​	@Capitals​	@Golden Knights​
Game 71​	Flyers​	Penguins​	Penguins​
Game 72​	@Sharks​	Hockey Club​	Hockey Club​
Game 73​	@Kings​	Canadiens​	Islanders​
Game 74​	@Ducks​	@Canadiens​	@Islanders​
Game 75​	Panthers​	@Maple Leafs​	@Senators​
Game 76​	Blue Jackets​	@Senators​	@Sabres​
Game 77​	@Panthers​	@Red Wings​	@Rangers​
Game 78​	@Lightning​	Maple Leafs​	Maple Leafs​
Game 79​	Canadiens​	Red Wings​	Red WIngs​
Game 80​	@Hurricanes​	Sabres​	Sabres​
Game 81​	@Sabres​	Rangers​	Panthers​
Game 82​	Red Wings​	@Lightning​	@Rangers​

Home Games: Leafs (9) > Lightning (8) > Panthers (7)
Road Games: Panthers (11) = Tampa (11) > Leafs (9)
Back to Backs: Panthers (5) > Leafs (4) > Lightning (1)
3 in 4 Nights: Panthers (4) > Leafs (3) > Lightning (1)
Games against Division Leaders: Leafs (3) > Lightning (2) > Panthers (1)
Games against Playoff Teams: Leafs (10) > Panthers (7) > Lightning (6)
Games against teams =<.500: Lightning (5) > Leafs (4) > Panthers (2)

The Leafs play the Panthers 3 times and the Lightning once. The Panthers and Lightning play each other once.

 

[cw]

Globe & Mail: The Leafs did Mitch Marner no favours at the trade deadline

Think of it from Marner’s perspective. You’re having a great year on the most watched team in hockey. You’re coming off the game of a lifetime in the 4 Nations tournament.... Now you’re supposed to throw a few things in a bag, move to a team no one cares about, and take most of the blame if they blow it in the playoffs. Then you hit free agency like a wet bag of cement.
,,,
Asked by reporters about the trade report, he said, “I’m here to play hockey with this team. That’s what I can tell you. I want to be with this team. I want to play with this team.” ... On whether he was surprised to be asked about a trade: “I had a feeling that maybe something might happen, but, yeah, I’m here to play hockey with this team, like I said.”
...
In which case, why was the question asked unless the Leafs felt sure the answer would be ‘Yes’? Because ‘No’ is a disaster. ... Marner knows that the Leafs don’t want him. Maybe he suspected it before – hence his “feeling” – but now he knows it to a certainty. In those circumstances, some players might be spurred to go John-Wick-on-skates, motivated by revenge. Marner is not sending those kind of signals. ... On Saturday, he wasn’t angry. He was rattled. His voice trembled as he spoke. In fairness, who among us wouldn’t be shaken up? The boss just rocked up to your desk and asked in a nice way if you’d like to fire yourself. ... If you want a player to waive his no trade, you have to four-dimensional chess him into thinking it was his idea. This would have been the work of many months. You don’t hit him last minute with checkers and hope he lets you off the hook.
...
“We want Mitch here for a long time,” Treliving said, speed talking his way through the problem. ”But I just … it’s not a distraction. But like I said, we think the world of him, right? It’s just not a question we’re going to get into every day.” ... If I was getting married to this guy, I’d start checking to see if the deposit on the hall was refundable. ... Clearly, the Leafs think they can manage without Marner. That’s why they tried to get rid of him. Telling reporters that up is down and black is white isn’t going to solve the problem. They have to convince Marner that brutal rejection is just the way the Leafs flirt. Based on how he looked on Saturday night, Marner’s not buying it. ... Whatever he’s saying now, Treliving & Co. clearly think the Leafs can manage without Marner. Now they’ll get to find out, and they didn’t even have to trade him to do it.
...
How do you negotiate with this guy going forward? He knows you don’t rate him. He probably hates you for it.

I don't think the reporter that wrote the above, Cathal Kelly, is that far off.
"He was rattled. His voice trembled as he spoke."
You do that to him - all in the public domain now corroborated by both sides - and expect him to not explore his UFA options?

This could well go down as one of the great blunders in Leafs management history.
They have a top 10 NHL scorer since he came into the league, their top playoff scorer, 5th highest scorer in franchise history, who wants to finish his career in Toronto and they're consistently driving him away to free agency in his prime losing him for nothing with very few options to recover his talent on the UFA market.
Describing it as stupid is being too kind.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Well they gotta find some way to not win!

 

[herman]

Globe & Mail: The Leafs did Mitch Marner no favours at the trade deadline


I don't think the reporter that wrote the above, Cathal Kelly, is that far off.

Cathal Kelly writes sports columns now?

If Marner is exercising his full rights to not negotiate during the season and also veto any potential trades, then the Leafs are exercising their full rights to ask him whenever something comes up. The front office has a job to do to make the team better. Doing their job to explore options and avenues does not constitute 'playing games' with the player. Not publicly mollifying a pending UFA in the midst of an organizational crisis after failure does not constitute 'playing games' with the player.

If Marner is truly discombobulated by standard operating procedures in team management and media, then he is in the wrong line of work and definitely chose the wrong representative.

 

[cabber24]

If he craps the bed in the playoffs again I cannot imagine the noise will be tolerable enough for him to stay, both management and the player will feel the need to move on. The Leafs will not implode if he goes.