spiderbob
New member
I personally worry it's his new baby.
Woll should get all the space he and his family deserve, and Leaf fans and the media are on a "no need to know" basis.
Could not hope I'm wrong anymore than I already do.
2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
Woll should get all the space he and his family deserve, and Leaf fans and the media are on a "no need to know" basis.
Could not hope I'm wrong anymore than I already do.
herman
Well-known member
Laughton finding out he became extremely important at work.
You'd think it would've come after playoff series loss #5 or something, but here we are at an inflection point. All the Buds need to do is look down the street at the Birds who coalesced together after a couple of hard years and constant doubts to pick each other up and win games in the long run as a team.
You'd think it would've come after playoff series loss #5 or something, but here we are at an inflection point. All the Buds need to do is look down the street at the Birds who coalesced together after a couple of hard years and constant doubts to pick each other up and win games in the long run as a team.
Last edited:
That first article is a tough read. A lot feels self-inflicted. You build a roster, a dialogue, and a game plan, but when it comes to deployment, it's a shit show. Everyone has to be better, especially Berube. Like the Jays, everyone needs to know their role and to be put into an opportunity to contribute in a meaningful way. The DNA change hasn't really started yet.
Arn
Well-known member
So to me the Leafs have gotten more boring and unwatchable the last 2 seasons. And I don’t think the roster (particularly the top end of it, or in fact the D as constructed) will ever be able to play “Berube” hockey. They’ve maybe mastered the dump bit of dump and chase. But they’re not built for the chasing.
Conversely the bottom lines are built to chase. But don’t really have any skill to capitalise if they do successfully chase. (Maybe that Laughton/Cowan combo was a hint of something).
The D is mostly too immobile for chasing and lacks penetration offensively.
It was definitely the right and natural time for Keefe to go. I wasn’t convinced Berube was the right replacement for this roster. I’m now 100% convinced he wasn’t. I’m also not convinced by most of Treliving’s moves. The roster is a bit of a hodge podge of different style players that don’t fit.
At the same time we probably have the best goaltending we’ve had in 20 years, which was something that Keefe was never really lucky enough to have. I think if you plug a 2024/25 Stolarz and Woll into the last few Keefe teams there’s a strong argument one of those teams makes it to a Conference final, but that’s a moot point really I guess.
To me a coach should be able to adapt and adjust his style around the strengths of his best players (and yes the players have to take some accountability and make some adjustments too). I’m not sure that the set up the Leafs have is going to make any progress. In fact, I’m even more convinced this iteration of the Lefs is now on the downslope of its contention already.
And they’re not even fun to watch from an entertainment point of view.
Conversely the bottom lines are built to chase. But don’t really have any skill to capitalise if they do successfully chase. (Maybe that Laughton/Cowan combo was a hint of something).
The D is mostly too immobile for chasing and lacks penetration offensively.
It was definitely the right and natural time for Keefe to go. I wasn’t convinced Berube was the right replacement for this roster. I’m now 100% convinced he wasn’t. I’m also not convinced by most of Treliving’s moves. The roster is a bit of a hodge podge of different style players that don’t fit.
At the same time we probably have the best goaltending we’ve had in 20 years, which was something that Keefe was never really lucky enough to have. I think if you plug a 2024/25 Stolarz and Woll into the last few Keefe teams there’s a strong argument one of those teams makes it to a Conference final, but that’s a moot point really I guess.
To me a coach should be able to adapt and adjust his style around the strengths of his best players (and yes the players have to take some accountability and make some adjustments too). I’m not sure that the set up the Leafs have is going to make any progress. In fact, I’m even more convinced this iteration of the Lefs is now on the downslope of its contention already.
And they’re not even fun to watch from an entertainment point of view.
bustaheims
Well-known member
This is kinda where I'm at. The team is playing very slow and passive, and that feels like it could be a result of them being caught between their instincts and the system they're being asked to play. I don't know if the two meld particularly well with this group of players. This group should be playing more of an up-tempo, aggressive, puck possession style. Right now, I'm not sure you could describe their "style" with any degree of accuracy. There's a really lack of consistency shift to shift. Berube's not a bad coach, but I don't think he's the right coach for this group - and I think he feels that to an extent, too. The line/lineup juggling that has gone on so far this season point to a coach that is struggling to make things work according to his plan.
Throw Blais and Pezzetta into a couple of games on the 4th line and tell them to hit everything in sight. Might at least wake some of the team up.
Just bring in Kampf at 4C instead of mucking around with a less than ideal roster.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
For me having skill guys like Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner last year, not have the puck on their sticks and to throw it in a corner and go get it is not playing to their strengths. It's like telling Nolan Ryan you can only throw curveballs...no fastballs.
We'll see what happens down the road but I'm not seeing this Berube style yet and we're into the 2nd year of it.
We'll see what happens down the road but I'm not seeing this Berube style yet and we're into the 2nd year of it.
Joe S.
Moderator
Something I’ve always wanted to ask, but am I the only one who looks at Matthews and doesn’t really see a centre? He just seems like a scoring winger to me. His assist totals are always kinda sad for a #1 centre, I don’t see him as much of a playmaker.
Am I crazy? If anything it always seemed to me that Marner should have been the centre not Mathews.
Am I crazy? If anything it always seemed to me that Marner should have been the centre not Mathews.
herman
Well-known member
There's no extended roadtrip to bond over until late November. The Leafs are fortunate the Jays are interesting right now.
I agree with the above on the disconnect between the playstyle and the personnel; it's more thinking than doing right now, and sometimes just outright doing it wrong. There are flashes where it clicks, but it's not muscle memory yet. Certainly the more puck skilled players will chafe at not having the puck, but the point is that come playoffs, you're even less likely to have to puck. The regular season is when this team needs to learn how to consistently keep getting the puck back in the DZ and the OZ, and get good at operating in chaos to win the board and slot battles.
I saw some improved dump-ins; they should be considered area passes, preferably into a lane where your team has a good speed differential. Chemistry within the lines is needed to read where to place the puck (and when); consistency is needed on the somewhat thankless task of fetching.
Most playoff goals come from forcing turnovers in the OZ, or counter rushes from the DZ blue line, and PP.
I agree with the above on the disconnect between the playstyle and the personnel; it's more thinking than doing right now, and sometimes just outright doing it wrong. There are flashes where it clicks, but it's not muscle memory yet. Certainly the more puck skilled players will chafe at not having the puck, but the point is that come playoffs, you're even less likely to have to puck. The regular season is when this team needs to learn how to consistently keep getting the puck back in the DZ and the OZ, and get good at operating in chaos to win the board and slot battles.
I saw some improved dump-ins; they should be considered area passes, preferably into a lane where your team has a good speed differential. Chemistry within the lines is needed to read where to place the puck (and when); consistency is needed on the somewhat thankless task of fetching.
Most playoff goals come from forcing turnovers in the OZ, or counter rushes from the DZ blue line, and PP.
I'm trying to be optimistic and patient. It is only 7 games. On paper, this team seems better than what we're seeing. But what we're seeing is troubling. The roster is not radically changed - aside from Marner.
There has been the talk about what the team is supposed to be. But we're not seeing that on the ice.
DNA additions Roy, Joshua & Macelli haven't been great - all getting between 11 and 13 mins per game.
The low number of roster changes - you would think that would help them gel but it hasn't
My expectations were not high. This team is not as good on paper as they were last year. But I thought they were roughly top 10 - not awful, not this poor. They're older and slower - we knew that before the start of the season. But I'm not seeing the "tougher to play against". They seem kind of lost - rudderless. Some of that might be Matthews not playing like a top 5 in the league.
Stolarz seems to be holding them in. That helps them a lot. I still believe they are more capable than they have shown and they will improve. I wish they would show us more signs of that ...
There has been the talk about what the team is supposed to be. But we're not seeing that on the ice.
DNA additions Roy, Joshua & Macelli haven't been great - all getting between 11 and 13 mins per game.
The low number of roster changes - you would think that would help them gel but it hasn't
My expectations were not high. This team is not as good on paper as they were last year. But I thought they were roughly top 10 - not awful, not this poor. They're older and slower - we knew that before the start of the season. But I'm not seeing the "tougher to play against". They seem kind of lost - rudderless. Some of that might be Matthews not playing like a top 5 in the league.
Stolarz seems to be holding them in. That helps them a lot. I still believe they are more capable than they have shown and they will improve. I wish they would show us more signs of that ...
They don't seem to have ANY players who relish getting in the corners and banging bodies. Even the big guys who you would think could do it - I'm talking Knies, McMann, Lorentz plus the big newcomers - they seem to only do it occasionally and mostly half-heartedly. I think back to that Florida series last year and how many brutal hits Tanev took. Verhaeghe in particular, every opportunity he just pasted him and seemed to love doing it.
I would really really love to see one line like the Islanders old crash line, with 3 guys who love that game and crash in on the forecheck with intent to deliver pain every single shift. I wouldn't care if they never scored a goal (though they would if they played like that). It might provide a jolt of energy to the rest of the team and that ridiculously quiet crowd they play in front of.
McMann, Lorentz, Joshua & Knies are hitting. They do not seem to engage in as many puck battles this year. The whole team doesn't - that's how it feels to me. Their number of giveaways are near the worst in the league. Takeaways 23rd so maybe that reflects some of what I'm seeing.
McMann seems to have upped the physical play a bit (the bar was admittedly low) and maybe Joshua is starting to do so as well. But a lot of it looks kind of half-hearted to me.
Knies was credited with 0 hits in the NJ game. Lorentz with 1.
That kind of stuff can be contagious. If a couple of guys throw a couple of big hits, others might up their physical game.
It's just frustrating to watch to watch the low levels of engagement, the lack of commitment to puck battles, the overall lackadaisical attitude the team seems to exhibit.
Arn
Well-known member
I wonder if that speaks kind of to what I’m feeling that Berube isn’t the coach for this roster?
Either consciously or subconsciously the buy in to his methods or system isn’t there. Or the likes of Matthews, Nylander etc can only buy in so far. They tried last year and lost bits of what made them good, but didn’t actually really make any playoff headway.
Maybe they need a different style of coach. Someone who can harness what suits those guys - having the puck etc.
But to do that then actually build out the bottom of the roster with the players to play your north south physical game. If you get your bottom 2 lines doing that then potentially that also wears other teams out to let the top line (or 2) play a bit more of the possession hockey.
I don’t know. I just feel like somethings gotta give soon. I almost feel like it’s rip it up and start again time in all honesty.
There doesn’t seem to be an identity or a plan. And they’re so, so uninspiring to watch. Like they were all of last year.
Joe S.
Moderator
Remember in the sundin era when they were down a goal late they would go nuts trying to tie the game and sundin was always in the middle of generating those chances.
I’ve rarely, if ever seen that from this generation of leafs teams.
I’m just so bored of this era, which makes no sense because I’ve never seen a team before this one that had so much up front talent.
I’ve rarely, if ever seen that from this generation of leafs teams.
I’m just so bored of this era, which makes no sense because I’ve never seen a team before this one that had so much up front talent.
I think McMann comes by his circumstances honestly. He's 210-215 sometimes trying to play like he's 230. There is more of a wear and tear when you're not as big. He has a long history of getting banged up. When he gets banged up, he's just not as effective.
As well, he geared himself towards being a finisher. His skating and hitting got him a look. His finishing got him a job. But when he gets banged up, that too suffers.
As a late bloomer, I think he's behind the others mentally. He has a great attitude but the NHL game doesn't seem as familiar to him as it is to others. He's still figuring it out. Some of that is the adjustments he's trying to make to stick around and get more ice time.
This summer he apparently worked on distributing the puck. The theory being: he would use his speed and hitting to get in on the forecheck, recover the puck and dish it to someone ready to bang it in. That is hard to do if you are not engaging in the puck battles. He can't just hit. He's got to get the puck.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
No you're not crazy but no, he's a centre because of the way he plays the 200 foot game. His apple totals are low because he shoots the puck better then 99% of the players in the league and they keep looking for him.
I think Marner could also be a centre for the exact same reasons but he's def more of a playmaker because he lacks a great shot. .
Joe S.
Moderator
That makes sense.
I’m trying not to lose faith in Matthews, but I feel sometimes we’re chasing a mirage. Like he hit his ceiling and we’re never going to see that again.
Not the greatest example, but something like lecavalier. He kept getting chances because there was this hope that hit his highs again… if that makes any sense.
Arn
Well-known member
I don’t think he’ll hit ~70 again. But then that’s probably not a stretch to think.
I do think he’ll breach 50 again. Maybe 55.
I’m just not sure he’ll do it playing on this version of the Leafs team.