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2025 Offseason Thread: Spring Cleaning

I agree. and I get you.

Except he's not doing it. He's not showing his several ways of scoring. He's not elevating his game and stealing wins for us. That's not a 13.25M guy IMO.

If we're going to talk about Marner being this expendable, "regular season hero". We need to really look at Matthews in the same light. because IMO, these past two seasons, he's been worse than Marner. Heck, he's barely outscoring the expendable playmaker.
If Matthews doesn't come back from his injury, all the billions of pixels being spilled over this Marner stuff won't matter one bit anyway.
Kind of replying to these both - I get and agree with what you’re saying OTH.

But to then talk a bit to ZBBM’s point, I kind of give him a “pass” for this last season and am more willing to think that he will bounce back and that he is more likely to be a game breaker.

I know you’re going back further but to me it gives just enough of a caveat to give him a bit more rope at this point.

But if this season turns out to be closer to what we get in future then yeah, we’re beyond screwed
 

Huh.
Won back to back Cups as an assistant with Tampa and typically ran pretty good penalty kills there.
 
Lalonde's personality comes across as "I eat paint chips" so I'm sure with Berube's don't emote on the bench policy this is a good fit.
 
CJ on his podcast literally said the Marner camp was always going to go to July 1st and that they weren't willing to negotiate in season. This trying to read between the lines is tedious and I take the reporting from CJ at a higher standard than speculation on why certain things were or weren't said.
Isn't that the same CJ who said something very similar to Lebrun-Treliving around June 15, 2024? :

The Athletic’s Chris Johnston said on The Chris Johnston Show (around June 15, 2024) that the Maple Leafs have not made a decision one way or another on trading Marner, nor has his camp submitted a list of teams that he’d like to be traded to.
“The Leafs are not leaning on Mitch Marner right now,” Johnston said. “They have not decided 100 percent they have to trade him and or that they’re going to make life uncomfortable and they’re getting the list of names. None of that’s what’s going on.”
Johnston made it clear that Marner wants to remain with the Maple Leafs and there remains a possibility that he’ll be back with the team entering the 2024-25 season. Marner publicly reiterated his desire to remain with the franchise during the team’s end-of-season media availabilities and has never stated any intention to leave the franchise.
Very similar to Treliving-Lebrun as of June 2024
To order it chronologically:
As of May 2024, Marner wanted to remain with the Leafs and had never stated an intention to leave.
It was in that media scrum at the end of the season that Marner said he was willing to get working on his 2025-26 contract "now" (I've posted that quote before and you can see it on video)

And then, a few weeks later (LeBrun-Treliving at the combine), Johnston echoes:
Leafs had not committed 100% to trading Marner but were certainly not dismissing the idea.

That chronology is important because it changed the negotiating circumstances.
Marner likes the Leafs & Toronto - wants to re-sign as of playoff exit media scrum.
Media firestorm starts up.
A few weeks later, Leafs GM, Treliving, tells folks in the media he's kicking around/has not dismissed the possibility of trading Marner (according to quotes of him and reported by both Lebrun and your cherished Johnston)

That would change the negotiation vibe. There is a key term for contract negotiation called "good faith". Because Marner's agent would be guarded haggling with a GM who had not decided if he wanted to trade his client and that GM had devalued his 'about to be' UFA client by telling the media of his uncertainty of whether he was going to try to trade him or not - of whether the GM saw his client as an important part of the Leafs aspirations to win a Cup.
That changes the whole negotiation ball game. It stokes the media firestorm.
But according to you, Marner is supposed to ignore that?
Rightfully, his agent didn't.
Treliving made his bed. Marner's agent is seeing to it that Treliving loses sleep in it.

At that point, the best move for the player is to minimize the ugly, damaging chatter which is what the agent and player eventually tried to do by announcing that they would never waive the NMC and they would play out the season with no more contract comments in the media. A sensible reaction to the media firestorm stoked by the GM. That is what they did.

They were right. Marner put up 102 point season. He remains the top regular season (top 10 in the NHL since he came into the league) and top playoff scorer for the Leafs since he arrived in Toronto. He is in quite a good negotiating position. Meanwhile, the Leafs are facing losing their top scorer, top forward PKer and annual Selke candidate for nothing. I think Treliving was in a much better position last May 2024. Marner is holding all the cards and owes Treliving no favours.
 
2020-2021 - Toronto chooses Wayne Simmonds over Corey Perry
- Perry accidentally concusses John Tavares
- Wayne Simmonds puts up 0G 1 A in 9 playoff games as a Leaf. He scores 12 G 15A over 128 GP
- Corey Perry has 21G 20A 41P in 88 playoff games.

This franchise consistently botches the bottom 6.
 
Isn't that the same CJ who said something very similar to Lebrun-Treliving around June 15, 2024? :


Very similar to Treliving-Lebrun as of June 2024
To order it chronologically:
As of May 2024, Marner wanted to remain with the Leafs and had never stated an intention to leave.
It was in that media scrum at the end of the season that Marner said he was willing to get working on his 2025-26 contract "now" (I've posted that quote before and you can see it on video)

And then, a few weeks later (LeBrun-Treliving at the combine), Johnston echoes:
Leafs had not committed 100% to trading Marner but were certainly not dismissing the idea.

That chronology is important because it changed the negotiating circumstances.
Marner likes the Leafs & Toronto - wants to re-sign as of playoff exit media scrum.
Media firestorm starts up.
A few weeks later, Leafs GM, Treliving, tells folks in the media he's kicking around/has not dismissed the possibility of trading Marner (according to quotes of him and reported by both Lebrun and your cherished Johnston)

That would change the negotiation vibe. There is a key term for contract negotiation called "good faith". Because Marner's agent would be guarded haggling with a GM who had not decided if he wanted to trade his client and that GM had devalued his 'about to be' UFA client by telling the media of his uncertainty of whether he was going to try to trade him or not - of whether the GM saw his client as an important part of the Leafs aspirations to win a Cup.
That changes the whole negotiation ball game. It stokes the media firestorm.
But according to you, Marner is supposed to ignore that?
Rightfully, his agent didn't.
Treliving made his bed. Marner's agent is seeing to it that Treliving loses sleep in it.

At that point, the best move for the player is to minimize the ugly, damaging chatter which is what the agent and player eventually tried to do by announcing that they would never waive the NMC and they would play out the season with no more contract comments in the media. A sensible reaction to the media firestorm stoked by the GM. That is what they did.

They were right. Marner put up 102 point season. He remains the top regular season (top 10 in the NHL since he came into the league) and top playoff scorer for the Leafs since he arrived in Toronto. He is in quite a good negotiating position. Meanwhile, the Leafs are facing losing their top scorer, top forward PKer and annual Selke candidate for nothing. I think Treliving was in a much better position last May 2024. Marner is holding all the cards and owes Treliving no favours.
You've put way too much time and energy in a post that I won't be reading.
 
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