Bernier's Arbitration Case | Sides settle at 2 years, $4.15mil AAV

[bustaheims]

jonasTSN1050: Jonathan Bernier says he could have taken similar deal from Leafs before arbitration. Decided Sunday morning post-hearing to take the deal.

 

[bustaheims]

I think he got over paid.That's a lot for average goaltending.

That's the 24th highest cap hit among goalies. He's paid like a bottom 1/3 starting goalie. If he only provides average goaltending, he's still contributing above his cap hit relative to other goalies in the league.

 

[AvroArrow]

Any stats to back that up?

Actually, what I have are these magical spheres in my head, capable of perceiving the world around me called eyes, and this super complex thing in my head called a brain, capable of processing information, coming up with ideas, and formulating opinions.

They're pretty neat - you should try them, sometime.

 

[bustaheims]

Any stats to back that up?

Actually, what I have are these magical spheres in my head, capable of perceiving the world around me called eyes, and this super complex thing in my head called a brain, capable of processing information, coming up with ideas, and formulating opinions.

They're pretty neat - you should try them, sometime.

You know what's great about those things? They lie to you. All the time. And, they're really good at making you believe those lies.

 

[AvroArrow]

You know what's great about those things? They lie to you. All the time. And, they're really good at making you believe those lies.

If your eyes and brain are constantly lying to you, then you might have some kind of mental illness.  I recommend talking to your doctor.

 

[bustaheims]

If your eyes and brain are constantly lying to you, then you might have some kind of mental illness.  I recommend talking to your doctor.

Yeah, some kind of mental illness called being a human being. Your brain and your eyes are constantly filtering information, removing unnecessary stuff (like always being able to see your nose, for instance) and interpreting it in a way that is consistent with your view of the world. Basically, whenever it's possible, you really do only see what you want to see. Your opinion very much colours what you observe. Hence, the lying to you.

Some recommended reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/opinion/29iht-edwang.1.14069662.html?_r=0

 

[AvroArrow]

If your eyes and brain are constantly lying to you, then you might have some kind of mental illness.  I recommend talking to your doctor.

Yeah, some kind of mental illness called being a human being. Your brain and your eyes are constantly filtering information, removing unnecessary stuff (like always being able to see your nose, for instance) and interpreting it in a way that is consistent with your view of the world. Basically, whenever it's possible, you really do only see what you want to see. Your opinion very much colours what you observe. Hence, the lying to you.

Some recommended reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/opinion/29iht-edwang.1.14069662.html?_r=0

That's actually called misinterpretation.  And it's not happening constantly to everyone.  Some people have huge problems with it to the point where I'm guessing it's considered mental illness.  Most people, however, can process information that doesn't fit their "view of the world" and alter their "view of the world" to account for new information.

 

[L K]

I think he got over paid.That's a lot for average goaltending.

Bernier - 4.15M 

That's 21st in overall goaltending cap hit just ahead of Steve Mason at 4.10M

James Reimer - 2.3M

That's 33rd in overall goaltending cap hit just ahead of Anton Khudobin at 2.25M

Reimer + Bernier = 6.45M

Five goaltenders make more than Reimer and Bernier combined.  Combined they are the 19th highest paid goaltending combination.  Most of the teams that are cheaper are only cheaper because they are using a cap friendly deal (Luongo in Florida), have rookie contract players (Mrazek in Detroit) or are using a cardboard cutout as their backup goaltender (Zatkoff in Pittsburgh).

 

[AvroArrow]

I honestly don't know why you're arguing about this.  Bernier let in weak goals quite frequently and had large stretches of poor play.  Thus, he's not "solid".

That's it - that's all there is to my point.  I don't need stats to tell me this, and my brain isn't "lying" to me about it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Any stats to back that up?

Actually, what I have are these magical spheres in my head, capable of perceiving the world around me called eyes, and this super complex thing in my head called a brain, capable of processing information, coming up with ideas, and formulating opinions.

They're pretty neat - you should try them, sometime.

Wow, sorry for asking for facts to back up a statement?  That's a pretty accepted method of proving an argument/hypothesis.  Didn't know you'd get so offended by someone asking if there are stats to back up your claims.

I don't need to be told that what you wrote was your opinion, that pretty much goes without saying.

You said he has "more often than not played poorly."  That's a statement which, if true, would very likely be reflected in the stats.  If he's more often than not poor, it stands to reason that his overall stats with the Leafs would be poor.  If his stats are not overall poor, it calls into question the statement which you made without anything backing it up.  I don't care if you choose not to back it up, I simply asked if there were stats to do so.

That wouldn't past muster in almost any industry, but I'm not here to hold you to any standard you don't want.  I'll just ignore it.

 

[bustaheims]

That's actually called misinterpretation.  And it's not happening constantly to everyone.  Some people have huge problems with it to the point where I'm guessing it's considered mental illness.  Most people, however, can process information that doesn't fit their "view of the world" and alter their "view of the world" to account for new information.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with what neuroscientists and psychological research have shown through various repeatable experiments over some guy on the internet who disagrees with their conclusions. Despite what you want to believe, once you've formed your opinion, you're interpreting things based on that. That lens now colours everything you see.

 

[AvroArrow]

That's actually called misinterpretation.  And it's not happening constantly to everyone.  Some people have huge problems with it to the point where I'm guessing it's considered mental illness.  Most people, however, can process information that doesn't fit their "view of the world" and alter their "view of the world" to account for new information.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with what neuroscientists and psychological research have shown through various repeatable experiments over some guy on the internet who disagrees with their conclusions. Despite what you want to believe, once you've formed your opinion, you're interpreting things based on that. That lens now colours everything you see.

No, you're right, I, along with everyone else on the planet, still believe the sun revolves around the earth, and the earth is the center of the universe, and other nonsense like that, because our brains constantly lie to us.  :

 

[bustaheims]

No, you're right, I, along with everyone else on the planet, still believe the sun revolves around the earth, and the earth is the center of the universe, and other nonsense like that, because our brains constantly lie to us.  :

Oh, hello there, reductio ad absurdum. It's been awhile.

But, for the record, it took generations for those beliefs to no longer be most widely held. People didn't suddenly change their opinions in spite of all the evidence. Oh, and there are still people out there that believe those things.

 

[AvroArrow]

No, you're right, I, along with everyone else on the planet, still believe the sun revolves around the earth, and the earth is the center of the universe, and other nonsense like that, because our brains constantly lie to us.  :

Oh, hello there, reductio ad absurdum. It's been awhile.

But, for the record, it took generations for those beliefs to no longer be most widely held. People didn't suddenly change their opinions in spite of all the evidence. Oh, and there are still people out there that believe those things.

Dude, you're trying to tell me the brain lies all the time.  It doesn't.  Our society would never advance.  People would never change their minds.  It's plain and simply WRONG.  Can our brain misinterpret information based on preconceived notions?  Yes, but its not doing it all the time.

 

[jdh1]

I think he got over paid.That's a lot for average goaltending.

But we really don't know if he's an average goaltender.  He's had one year where he was above average and one year below.  And those numbers are relative to the rest of the league, even though he was playing on a terrible team.

So, we'll find out what he is soon, but it's too early to call him average.  In the meantime $4.15 really isn't a bad number, especially on a short-term deal.

If he plays up to his potential,we are ok...if he doesn't cut it this year...and we need to peddle him...$4.15 might be tough to trade.

 

[Leaflifer]

I dunno...I didn't watch a lot of Leafs last year (obvious reasons) but Bernier seemed to fall into the quitter category when I did see him play. No stats to back that up...just an opinion. If I did have stats they would be pretty arguable anyway....team in front of him, always facing quality chances, that kind of stuff.

 

[Andy007]

Bernier has a tendency to be burned by bad goals and he played poorly during that awful 10+ game stretch when Horacheck took over (where the team actually played quite well) but other than that he's been anywhere from good to great. 4 million is more than reasonable; I'm not sure what people think a .923, .912 SP goalie playing behind a porous defence should be making.

 

[Leaflifer]

Bernier has a tendency to be burned by bad goals and he played poorly during that awful 10+ game stretch when Horacheck took over (where the team actually played quite well) but other than that he's been anywhere from good to great. 4 million is more than reasonable; I'm not sure what people think a .923, .912 SP goalie playing behind a porous defence should be making.

I won't dispute that he can be good. As far as I know, he may not be part of the problem, but more of a victim of a bad dressing room and an unstable coaching staff. There will likely be a few players from last year that improve with a culture change.

 

[Kin]

"The problem" last year was that the team wasn't very good.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

"The problem" last year was that the team wasn't very good.

And will likely be the problem again this year, regardless of how much culture is changed.