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Blackhawks @ Leafs - Jan. 15th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590

bustaheims said:
In the "who'd-a-thunk it" file - that was Kane's first regular season hat trick. He has two in the playoffs.
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I'm taking you didn't watch the TSN broadcast.
 
Patrick man-whore turning tricks in the winter and accepting them in the summer.

The glory of his mullet matched only by the glory of his herpes.
 
Assuming the Ducks hold on to win tonight, we'll see some actual separation  between the bottom 4/5 teams and the rest of the pack.

 
Nik the Trik said:
bustaheims said:
In the "who'd-a-thunk it" file - that was Kane's first regular season hat trick. He has two in the playoffs.
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I'm taking you didn't watch the TSN broadcast.
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Most depressing part of that broadcast was when McKenzie pointed out that the leafs have missed the playoffs 9 of the last 10 years and still have nothing close to resembling Keith, Seabrook, Toews and Kane.
 
An interesting little note, The Leafs offered Panarin from the Hawks a contract in December 2014 that he rejected, he signed with Chicago in April 2015.

When Soshnikov and one or two of the NCAA (Hyman, Bailey) guys signed with Toronto they reportedly did so with belief that since the Leafs weren't destined to be great, they'd have a decent shot at NHL time.

The Leafs have been singing from a new hymn sheet, they believe in development first. So guys like Soshnikov go to the Marlies rather than play on the big club while the Leafs pad the big club roster with marginal one-year veteran rentals.

Panarin chose Chicago and is having a great year playing with Pat Kane, perhaps he started with Chicago because they have cap trouble and really had to get creative to try and fill out the roster.

I think it brings up some interesting questions.

Does every player really need the same development strategy?

If Panarin had signed with Toronto, do we think he'd be on the big club right now?

If not, does it raise questions about the Leafs perhaps being overzealous in their attempts to "do it right"?

Lastly, if you're Nikita Zaitsev, who is rumoured to be planning on signing with Toronto, does the development curves of Panarin and Soshnikov change your decision?

Would you sign with the best team interested in you or the lesser team you think you have a better shot of making?
 
Patrick said:
I think it brings up some interesting questions.

Does every player really need the same development strategy?

If Panarin had signed with Toronto, do we think he'd be on the big club right now?

If not, does it raise questions about the Leafs perhaps being overzealous in their attempts to "do it right"?

Lastly, if you're Nikita Zaitsev, who is rumoured to be planning on signing with Toronto, does the development curves of Panarin and Soshnikov change your decision?

Would you sign with the best team interested in you or the lesser team you think you have a better shot of making?
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Just personally:

1. I'd think that's an obvious no and I think that adopting one for the purposes of simplicity or uniformity is unmistakably an error. Flexibility is an asset.

2. I doubt it. A lot of personnel decisions made this off-season seemed to be as much about shielding guys from the reality of what would be a tough year with the big club as it did about who was ready where. Panarin probably would have fit into that.

3. Yes, although I think those questions were always there. I forget when or where it was posted but there was an interview with Ken Holland a while back about "the Detroit model" people seem so keen on and he says flat out that if they ever had a top 10 sort of prospect that they'd use a different development strategy than the "stick him in the AHL for years" one. Heck, look at Dylan Larkin.

4. You'd like to think it informs his decision, but then again you'd like to think he always went into negotiations cognizant of the fact that how a player is developed is very much a process as opposed to a flat answer.

5. I'd like to think I was confident enough in my abilities that I'd believe I would be successful regardless and would probably lean towards the successful organization because, you'd assume, they had a good track record in player development.
 
Patrick said:
An interesting little note, The Leafs offered Panarin from the Hawks a contract in December 2014 that he rejected, he signed with Chicago in April 2015.

When Soshnikov and one or two of the NCAA (Hyman, Bailey) guys signed with Toronto they reportedly did so with belief that since the Leafs weren't destined to be great, they'd have a decent shot at NHL time.

The Leafs have been singing from a new hymn sheet, they believe in development first. So guys like Soshnikov go to the Marlies rather than play on the big club while the Leafs pad the big club roster with marginal one-year veteran rentals.

Panarin chose Chicago and is having a great year playing with Pat Kane, perhaps he started with Chicago because they have cap trouble and really had to get creative to try and fill out the roster.

I think it brings up some interesting questions.

Does every player really need the same development strategy?

If Panarin had signed with Toronto, do we think he'd be on the big club right now?

If not, does it raise questions about the Leafs perhaps being overzealous in their attempts to "do it right"?

Lastly, if you're Nikita Zaitsev, who is rumoured to be planning on signing with Toronto, does the development curves of Panarin and Soshnikov change your decision?

Would you sign with the best team interested in you or the lesser team you think you have a better shot of making?
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Panarin fit a real cost need in Chicago though, I'm sure that played a part. It's difficult to say what Zaitsev or whoever might be thinking looking at the Leafs halfway through the year, Soshnikov may still get a shot, same with Hyman and Bailey, and Bailey got his burned year too. I'd say yeah, every player is different, sure, but the situation will have a say too.

Looking at Panarins details at general fanager, he has the all star game as one of his bonuses ( presuming it's correct ). He wasn't going over Kane but still, have to wonder if a guy like that looked at John Scott with any kind of fondness.
 
Thanks for responding Nik.

I'm fairly confident the people running the team now are smart enough to have a development plan that's specific to each individual player.

I just hope they don't get stuck in a rigid frame of mind where the best development strategy will always be to start them in Jnr/AHL because that's the "right way" I think a lot of the media have been pushing that narrative and I hope it doesn't stick.

 
Nik the Trik said:
3. Yes, although I think those questions were always there. I forget when or where it was posted but there was an interview with Ken Holland a while back about "the Detroit model" people seem so keen on and he says flat out that if they ever had a top 10 sort of prospect that they'd use a different development strategy than the "stick him in the AHL for years" one. Heck, look at Dylan Larkin.
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I think some of that comes from people misunderstanding what the Detroit model is. It's not just leaving guys in the AHL for years. It's about not putting guys into the NHL lineup until they're ready to stick there - whenever that may be. With Larkin, it was right away, with others, it won't be. Though, I also feel like they'd take a similar path with their prospects as the Leafs have if their team was in a similar position.
 
bustaheims said:
I think some of that comes from people misunderstanding what the Detroit model is. It's not just leaving guys in the AHL for years. It's about not putting guys into the NHL lineup until they're ready to stick there - whenever that may be. With Larkin, it was right away, with others, it won't be. Though, I also feel like they'd take a similar path with their prospects as the Leafs have if their team was in a similar position.
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I think you're largely right, I just think that if you asked 30 NHL GMs whether or not they wanted to put players in the AHL before they're ready to stick there you'd largely get 30 of the same answers. So I think the idea of a "Detroit Model" in the first place is a misnomer. I think it's been sort of an easy shorthand for people looking for a way to justify the various "retoolings" we've seen based on Detroit's relative success.
 
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