Burke Fired

[bustaheims]

One of these days, I'm gonna figure out how to work tables on this board.

 

[rdowdall]

So to answer your question, HS, the goal differential last year was -5 if you want to listen to the NHL or around twice that according to their two abacuses.

You can't count shootout goals in their goal differential.  If you look at the actual scores of the games played, Leafs were a -9 after 18 games.  This year they haven't gone to OT yet so the +10 after 18 games looks even more impressive.  A 19 goal differential.

My point was more that if people just look at the goals for and goals against columns, some of those goals are phantom goals.

As busta points out, they only went to overtime and won twice, so that would mean that 2 goals were phantom goals.

 

[Kin]

You can't count shootout goals in their goal differential.  If you look at the actual scores of the games played, Leafs were a -9 after 18 games.  This year they haven't gone to OT yet so the +10 after 18 games looks even more impressive.  A 19 goal differential.

I'm actually going to stick with my own math/the NHL on this one but the 15 goal swing is a legitimate improvement.

And I disagree about a shootout goal in the sense of trying to get an accurate sense of how a team played. Like it or not when accounting for a win the shootout matters.

 

[Deebo]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?date=10/09/2011&season=20112012&type=DIV

If you listen to the NHL, the leafs record on October 9th 2011 was 37-34-11.

My abacus says they were 2-0-0 though.

 

[Zee]

I'm going for beers. You guys call us when you have this sorted, k?

I think my original point was, although the Leafs have the same number of points after 18 games, the record this year is more impressive because it's built off good defense.  You can't win consistently in the NHL having to score 4 goals a game.  They have up 60 (or 61 goals depending on what you believe) in 18 games last year or 3.39 a game.  Once the goal scoring dries up for stretches, the losses mount up if you keep giving up goals at that rate.  So just looking at the team overall point total after 18 games and suggesting there's no difference between the Wilson and Carlyle teams is ridiculous.

 

[Kin]

So just looking at the team overall point total after 18 games and suggesting there's no difference between the Wilson and Carlyle teams is ridiculous.

Who did that?

 

[Corn Flake]

I'm going for beers. You guys call us when you have this sorted, k?

I think my original point was, although the Leafs have the same number of points after 18 games, the record this year is more impressive because it's built off good defense.  You can't win consistently in the NHL having to score 4 goals a game.  They have up 60 (or 61 goals depending on what you believe) in 18 games last year or 3.39 a game.  Once the goal scoring dries up for stretches, the losses mount up if you keep giving up goals at that rate.  So just looking at the team overall point total after 18 games and suggesting there's no difference between the Wilson and Carlyle teams is ridiculous.

I fully agree. 

So... you coming for beers then?

 

[bustaheims]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?date=10/09/2011&season=20112012&type=DIV

If you listen to the NHL, the leafs record on October 9th 2011 was 37-34-11.

My abacus says they were 2-0-0 though.

On the 10th, it had the record right, but had them scoring 12 goals through 2 games. My abacus has them having scored 8 goals.

 

[Zee]

You can't count shootout goals in their goal differential.  If you look at the actual scores of the games played, Leafs were a -9 after 18 games.  This year they haven't gone to OT yet so the +10 after 18 games looks even more impressive.  A 19 goal differential.

I'm actually going to stick with my own math/the NHL on this one but the 15 goal swing is a legitimate improvement.

And I disagree about a shootout goal in the sense of trying to get an accurate sense of how a team played. Like it or not when accounting for a win the shootout matters.

I was looking at how many goals a team game up vs. how many they score when they're actually playing the game not holding a skills competition.  Sure the goal counts and it's worth a win, but shouldn't be considered if you're looking at overall team goal differential when comparing teams.

 

[Kin]

I was looking at how many goals a team game up vs. how many they score when they're actually playing the game not holding a skills competition.  Sure the goal counts and it's worth a win, but shouldn't be considered if you're looking at overall team goal differential when comparing teams.

Like I said, you can deride the Shootout all you want and I absolutely agree that it shouldn't be part of the game. That said, it absolutely is part of the game and I think when using goal differential as a sort of all-encompassing statement regarding a team's play outside of just their record you do have to give some weight to how a team does in a shootout.

 

[Zee]

So just looking at the team overall point total after 18 games and suggesting there's no difference between the Wilson and Carlyle teams is ridiculous.

Who did that?

My bad.  I assumed you were implying there was no difference between last years Leafs and this season since you pointed out they have the same point total.  In "assuming" I made an ass out of u and me, although only me. 

 

[Kin]

My bad.  I assumed you were implying there was no difference between last years Leafs and this season since you pointed out they have the same point total.  In "assuming" I made an ass out of u and me, although only me. 

No worries. Like I said, that very much wasn't my point. In fact, my point was almost the opposite. That this team's improvement is in no small part due to the fact that Burke is gone.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Perhaps I'm too old..but what is ROW?

ROW is a column in the standings that mean regulation and overtime wins, basically your win total without shoot out wins.

It is used for tie breaking.

Busta was probably using it to indicate GA/GF without including the "goal" awarded for winning a shootout.

Roger that and thanks.  I knew I had seen the term before, I just didn't pay that close attention. I still long for the days of Wins - Losses - Ties.....so much easier.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

A quote attributed to Burke regarding the Leafs success this season.

"Sometimes you do the hard work and set the table and somebody else eats the meal."

Quite honestly I find that a little distasteful, I mean sure he might still be a little or a lot sore about being canned, but would it have killed him to throw out some platitude about being happy for Nonis and the players? Instead he reminds everyone that all the credit should go to him.

 

[Deebo]

A quote attributed to Burke regarding the Leafs success this season.

"Sometimes you do the hard work and set the table and somebody else eats the meal."

Quite honestly I find that a little distasteful, I mean sure he might still be a little or a lot sore about being canned, but would it have killed him to throw out some platitude about being happy for Nonis and the players? Instead he reminds everyone that all the credit should go to him.

It's one quote, I'm sure there was more to the interview what he thinks of it.

It seems out of character for Burke, he was always giving credit to other people when he was here. Nonis and JFJ come to mind as people who he went out of his way to praise.

 

[Champ Kind]

A quote attributed to Burke regarding the Leafs success this season.

"Sometimes you do the hard work and set the table and somebody else eats the meal."

Quite honestly I find that a little distasteful, I mean sure he might still be a little or a lot sore about being canned, but would it have killed him to throw out some platitude about being happy for Nonis and the players? Instead he reminds everyone that all the credit should go to him.

Is it wrong?  I think it's accurate and appropriately humble. 

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Of course not and pretty much everyone knows that, I just don't think Brian needs to be the one saying it.

 

[pnjunction]

A quote attributed to Burke regarding the Leafs success this season.

"Sometimes you do the hard work and set the table and somebody else eats the meal."

Quite honestly I find that a little distasteful, I mean sure he might still be a little or a lot sore about being canned, but would it have killed him to throw out some platitude about being happy for Nonis and the players? Instead he reminds everyone that all the credit should go to him.

Is it wrong?  I think it's accurate and appropriately humble.

Did you watch last night's game where Seguin dismantled us, again, and Kessel was a no-show, again?

Burke can shove it.

 

[Kin]

Is it wrong?  I think it's accurate and appropriately humble.

I think that given the way he ran the team in the past where Nonis had a great deal of responsibility there is something a little bit inaccurate in presenting Burke as the guy who did the hard work and Nonis as the guy who's just reaping the benefits of it.

 

[Leafaholic99]

Is it wrong?  I think it's accurate and appropriately humble.

I think that given the way he ran the team in the past where Nonis had a great deal of responsibility there is something a little bit inaccurate in presenting Burke as the guy who did the hard work and Nonis as the guy who's just reaping the benefits of it.

Burke may have been the face running the trades/signings, but a he wasn't the only one working on the deals, Nonis/Fletcher helped out as well, no need for Burke to make that quote, but whatever. I am happy with somethings he did while here, and not so happy with a few things he did also, but that is how it is with every GM, you win some, you lose some, you just hope the wins outweigh the losses.