Carlyle: A team without goals is like a ship without a rudder

[herman]

http://www.tsn.ca/carlyle-toronto-was-a-learning-experience-1.399180

Randy Carlyle has sad panda thoughts.

"Was it fun? No, it wasn?t fun when you don?t win enough. But you do the things you do because you believe that?s how things needed to be done with that group. Now, if you have a different mandate, you can do different things, you can change."

[...]

"I don?t want to say anything about the Toronto situation, it?s past, there will be a time and a place," said Carlyle. "Obviously I have opinions that are different from what?s going on. It?s a frustrating situation when you?re in one that you know at the end of the day it?s not going to work.

"But it?s hard for me to comment on the Toronto situation, I?m still getting paid by them, I don?t want to come across as sour grapes. It?s just that there are things that you would do differently, you change the way you approach the next situation, for sure you would."

Since he's still under contract (as noted in the article), I didn't post this in the Ex-Leafs section.

 

[bustaheims]

Even though he doesn't actually make the boat/rudder reference in this article, it should noted that a team that plays defence the way he tried to get the Leafs to is like a boat without a hull.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Whether I agree with them or not, I always like hearing what a fired coach has to say about the situation he was in. Particularly if he's pretty candid about it, like I feel Randy might be when that time comes.

 

[Joe S.]

Like Wilson was? Blaming everyone but himself?

 

[herman]

Even though he doesn't actually make the boat/rudder reference in this article, it should noted that a team that plays defence the way he tried to get the Leafs to is like a boat without a hull.

The title is a reference to Thomas Carlyle's "a man without a goal is like a ship without a rudder". I thought it applicable to the way Randy coached this team (ironically) to go for goals at the expense of just about everything else that has been proven for years to lead to more goals in a sustainable fashion.

Whether I agree with them or not, I always like hearing what a fired coach has to say about the situation he was in. Particularly if he's pretty candid about it, like I feel Randy might be when that time comes.

I'm looking forward to this. There have been lots of comments from the dressing room about how things spiraled into that hot garbage fire that was 2014-15. Horachek and Spott both took a heavy hit to their career prospects as well to see it through to the end.

 

[dappleganger]

Like Wilson was? Blaming everyone but himself?

Wilson is was a horrible coach with the Leafs and his post-Leafs behaviour exemplifies that.

 

[hobarth]

Like Wilson was? Blaming everyone but himself?

Wilson is was a horrible coach with the Leafs and his post-Leafs behaviour exemplifies that.

Wilson was/is one of the most winning coaches the NHL has ever seen, RC had won a cup after Babs did, it's amazing how good coaches seem to forget how to coach once they reach TO?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Carlyle is basically admitting what many of us said here over and over. He knows it wasn't the proper way to coach but it's the only way he saw a chance of winning night in and night out with the lack of talent on the ice.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Carlyle is basically admitting what many of us said here over and over. He knows it wasn't the proper way to coach but it's the only way he saw a chance of winning night in and night out with the lack of talent on the ice.

Or rather he had a bunch of forwards that couldn't play a cycle and grind game and he played to their strengths.  That is if you believe the system the Leafs played was what their coach wanted.  Truth is Randy was publicly harping his team wasn't playing defensively enough and had too many shots against all during his time in Toronto.  The assistant coach that had a half season after him said the same thing.  It was the players that weren't playing well defensively.  It wasn't like either coach was advising it.

 

[herman]

Carlyle is basically admitting what many of us said here over and over. He knows it wasn't the proper way to coach but it's the only way he saw a chance of winning night in and night out with the lack of talent on the ice.

Or rather he had a bunch of forwards that couldn't play a cycle and grind game and he played to their strengths.  That is if you believe the system the Leafs played was what their coach wanted.  Truth is Randy was publicly harping his team wasn't playing defensively enough and had too many shots against all during his time in Toronto.  The assistant coach that had a half season after him said the same thing.  It was the players that weren't playing well defensively.  It wasn't like either coach was advising it.

Yes, Carlyle said that the way they were playing was not sustainable. However, the tactics that he employed, and the methods he coached (swarm defence; let them take outside shots; off-the-glass and out; etc.) were the cause of the results he was not pleased with. It was the same in Anaheim. What success they did have was the result of Carlyle not enforcing his system with Bozak's line because Kessel could basically will the puck into the net if he didn't have to play defence.

 

[Kin]

Yes, Carlyle said that the way they were playing was not sustainable. However, the tactics that he employed, and the methods he coached (swarm defence; let them take outside shots; off-the-glass and out; etc.) were the cause of the results he was not pleased with. It was the same in Anaheim. What success they did have was the result of Carlyle not enforcing his system with Bozak's line because Kessel could basically will the puck into the net if he didn't have to play defence.

Exactly. Any suggestion that Carlyle coached the way he did because of the players on the team has to contend with the fact that more or less the exact same thing happened to his much more talented Anaheim teams.

It's probably fair to say that nothing Carlyle could have done in Toronto would have made the Leafs a really good team but there's really nothing to suggest he got the most out of them either.

 

[Boston Leaf]

Id like to see him hired right now before season end so we can get some compensation. that's all I got

 

[Highlander]

What team would hire him right now? Or soon?

 

[Bullfrog]

It's probably fair to say that nothing Carlyle could have done in Toronto would have made the Leafs a really good team but there's really nothing to suggest he got the most out of them either.

That's the key take-home message to me. He wasn't a great coach, but it probably didn't matter a tremendous amount as we're seeing now with Babcock.

 

[bustaheims]

Wilson was/is one of the most winning coaches the NHL has ever seen, RC had won a cup after Babs did, it's amazing how good coaches seem to forget how to coach once they reach TO?

Wilson didn't forget to coach at all. His Leaf teams were let down by atrocious goaltending. Had they received even league average calibre goaltending, the Leafs would have been in the hunt and possibly made the playoffs in a number of the seasons he was behind the Leafs' bench. It's not a coincidence that, in the half season they received quality goaltending from Reimer, they won the majority of their games.

As others have stated, Carlyle's problems began before he was let go in Anaheim. Yes, he won a Cup there, but he never managed to adapt to the way the league changed from that point. And, to be honest, being able to win the Cup when your team was the favourite to win it all season, with the roster they had . . . that doesn't really make you a good coach. It's not like he ever really got more out a roster than expected. At his best, he coached teams to roughly where they should been. That's some pretty ordinary coaching.

 

[rdowdall]

Wilson was/is one of the most winning coaches the NHL has ever seen, RC had won a cup after Babs did, it's amazing how good coaches seem to forget how to coach once they reach TO?

Wilson didn't forget to coach at all. His Leaf teams were let down by atrocious goaltending. Had they received even league average calibre goaltending, the Leafs would have been in the hunt and possibly made the playoffs in a number of the seasons he was behind the Leafs' bench. It's not a coincidence that, in the half season they received quality goaltending from Reimer, they won the majority of their games.

As others have stated, Carlyle's problems began before he was let go in Anaheim. Yes, he won a Cup there, but he never managed to adapt to the way the league changed from that point. And, to be honest, being able to win the Cup when your team was the favourite to win it all season, with the roster they had . . . that doesn't really make you a good coach. It's not like he ever really got more out a roster than expected. At his best, he coached teams to roughly where they should been. That's some pretty ordinary coaching.

* Carlyle looks out on the ice.  See's Niedermayer is on the ice *
"Pronger your up.  Pick someone to play with you"
* Carlyle thinks to himself "I should win coach of the year" *

- I actually think that Niedermayer and Pronger played a lot together...but still, c'mon.

 

[freer]

IMO this is just another bitter coach like Wilson who could not the job done. To be frank I don't give a damn what either RW or RC have to say about Toronto. Both are still unemployed. So both can pound sand.

 

[Highlander]

Agreed with Freer and Randy is still getting paid on his extension on pretty decent dough so he should shut up and enjoy Sudsbury.

 

[herman]

LeBrun (link):

I had a comment from a Leafs player about a month ago. We were chatting off the record, but I don?t mind sharing this part. He said, ?you know the difference between this year and last year? I feel like everyone is being treated equally. That no one is getting special favours.? He goes, ?when you do that, you get a much bigger buy in from the whole group.?That was his comment, and that is what Babcock is doing. Now, I will say this: It?s obviously easier to do when Phil Kessel is gone. That?s not a shot at Kessel, but that was really the elephant in the room ? that your most talented player shows up at camp overweight, and what are you going to do about it? Frankly, I would've paid to have seen Mike Babcock handle that this year. It would've been fun.

Again, let?s be fair. When you have an eight-year contract, you have the mandate to make a decision without fearing, like many coaches around the league do, about what it means to your own future. I mean, stability financially and stability in term, and stability in your reputation ? that has a lot to do with what a coach is willing to do in this league and what a coach isn't.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Man, I have a very different definition of "off the record" than LeBrun does. I'm sure whichever player he was talking to did as well.