Coach Mike Babcock

[AvroArrow]

Believe me tank is not in the vocabulary of anyone in this new Leaf management. Shanahan and Dubas are assembling a managment team that will not tolerate non effort. They are either going to play the systems introduced by Babcock or they will be playing elsewhere. Full effort is not only going to be expected but demanded.
I never want to see the Leafs play like they did this past year, aimless without direction and  worst of all non effort.
So lets put Tank Nation away.  I think we are going to see a lot of players traded for picks this year with perhaps another 1 or 2 first rounders and certainly a couple of 2nd rounders added to what we already have.

You need to go back and re-read what both Shanahan and Babcock have said.  They've said things along the lines of "scorched earth", "pain", etc.

They're both planning to tank at least next year - you just don't seem to realize what tank means.

 

[hockeyfan1]

An interesting comparison...with some slight differences...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/comparing-mike-babcock-hiring-to-pat-burns/

 

[ZBBM]

Believe me tank is not in the vocabulary of anyone in this new Leaf management. Shanahan and Dubas are assembling a managment team that will not tolerate non effort. They are either going to play the systems introduced by Babcock or they will be playing elsewhere. Full effort is not only going to be expected but demanded.
I never want to see the Leafs play like they did this past year, aimless without direction and  worst of all non effort.
So lets put Tank Nation away.  I think we are going to see a lot of players traded for picks this year with perhaps another 1 or 2 first rounders and certainly a couple of 2nd rounders added to what we already have.

You need to go back and re-read what both Shanahan and Babcock have said.  They've said things along the lines of "scorched earth", "pain", etc.

They're both planning to tank at least next year - you just don't seem to realize what tank means.

What rank really means is to deliberately give less than your normal effort within a game in order to lose that game. It's subtly different than throwing a game. Only players can tank. Management cannot. The word has gotten really loosely used recently.

It's very difficult to tell whether a team or individual player is tanking -- that's the whole point.


What Buffalo did this year was probably not tanking. Management just assembled a bad roster, and the players probably played up to their limited abilities.

A good example of a very likely tank was in the  2006 Olympics when Sweden lost to some quite inferior team and ended up with a favorable matchup the next game in the medal round.

 

[caver]

...from the urban dictionary...

  "The word tanking, in terms of sport, would be used to describe a bad performance

Tanking is the act of giving up a match or "throwing it away", losing intentionally or not competing. "

 

[Redleaf]

Babcock will have this team into the playoffs next year.

You know. It wouldn't really surprise me if he does.

 

[bustaheims]

The term "tanking" comes from the phrase "going into the tank." It's not about poor effort, it's about poor performances. It's about deliberately not putting your team in a position to be able to win a lot - and that's absolutely something management can do. It's what Buffalo's management did last season when they intentionally stripped the roster bare and did little to add talent to their roster. It's something we could very easily see from the Leafs if they move a number of major pieces this summer. If you intentionally put together a roster that isn't talented enough to win on a regular basis, that is 100% tanking.

 

[Andy007]

The term "tanking" comes from the phrase "going into the tank." It's not about poor effort, it's about poor performances. It's about deliberately not putting your team in a position to be able to win a lot - and that's absolutely something management can do. It's what Buffalo's management did last season when they intentionally stripped the roster bare and did little to add talent to their roster. It's something we could very easily see from the Leafs if they move a number of major pieces this summer. If you intentionally put together a roster that isn't talented enough to win on a regular basis, that is 100% tanking.

Yea, essentially it's what Rachel Phelps did in the movie "Major League' with the Indians.

Only that rag-tag group just so happened to come together as a team, find inner strength (and talents) and show that arrogant owner a thing or two about heart!! Maybe Richard Panik will be next year's Ricky Vaughn?!

 

[Kin]

Yea, essentially it's what Rachel Phelps did in the movie "Major League' with the Indians.

Only that rag-tag group just so happened to come together as a team, find inner strength (and talents) and show that arrogant owner a thing or two about heart!! Maybe Richard Panik will be next year's Ricky Vaughn?!

I think it's pretty clear. Kessel is Roger Dorn. Lupul is Jake Taylor. Gardiner is Willie Mays Hayes. Kadri is Cerrano.  Olli Jokinen was Harris.

Rielly, I think, is Vaughn.

 

[Highlander]

Hey who cares about tanking on purpose or stripped down. What all of us want to see and I believe there would be concensus on this, is we want to see these guys play their guts out every shift, win or lose. The winning will come, but quitting like this team did night in and night out was what they did.

 

[Kin]

Like Bullfrog said, there will be differences between this group and the last but the difference won't be that the last group was ok with players not trying.

 

[Andy007]

Yea, essentially it's what Rachel Phelps did in the movie "Major League' with the Indians.

Only that rag-tag group just so happened to come together as a team, find inner strength (and talents) and show that arrogant owner a thing or two about heart!! Maybe Richard Panik will be next year's Ricky Vaughn?!

I think it's pretty clear. Kessel is Roger Dorn. Lupul is Jake Taylor. Gardiner is Willie Mays Hayes. Kadri is Cerrano.  Olli Jokinen was Harris.

Rielly, I think, is Vaughn.

And Joe Bowen as Harry Doyle.

 

[Kin]

And Joe Bowen as Harry Doyle.

Phaneuf's slapshot is just....a bit outside.

 

[ZBBM]

The term "tanking" comes from the phrase "going into the tank." It's not about poor effort, it's about poor performances. It's about deliberately not putting your team in a position to be able to win a lot - and that's absolutely something management can do. It's what Buffalo's management did last season when they intentionally stripped the roster bare and did little to add talent to their roster. It's something we could very easily see from the Leafs if they move a number of major pieces this summer. If you intentionally put together a roster that isn't talented enough to win on a regular basis, that is 100% tanking.

No it isn't. It's what I said it was. What we did the second half of the season is closer to tanking than what Buffalo did.

 

[Kin]

The term "tanking" comes from the phrase "going into the tank." It's not about poor effort, it's about poor performances. It's about deliberately not putting your team in a position to be able to win a lot - and that's absolutely something management can do. It's what Buffalo's management did last season when they intentionally stripped the roster bare and did little to add talent to their roster. It's something we could very easily see from the Leafs if they move a number of major pieces this summer. If you intentionally put together a roster that isn't talented enough to win on a regular basis, that is 100% tanking.

No it isn't. It's what I said it was. What we did the second half of the season is closer to tanking than what Buffalo did.

You're really going to split hairs about a word that's clearly being used in the sense that it's come to mean from a team building perspective?

 

[bustaheims]

No it isn't. It's what I said it was. What we did the second half of the season is closer to tanking than what Buffalo did.

Just because you believe you're right doesn't make you right. The Leafs played awful in the second half, yes, but the Sabres still were intentionally bad. Their goal was to finish near the bottom of the league. That is tanking, through and through. The Leafs quit, the Sabres tanked.

 

[skrackle]

Like Bullfrog said, there will be differences between this group and the last but the difference won't be that the last group was ok with players not trying.

Yeah, I think there will be no question about the effort level of any player that makes the team from this point on. I expect that the 'woe is me' atmosphere that seemed to permeate the team from January onward will disappear quickly.

Nothing has happened with the roster yet, but I'd guess that any players that have current day value to contending teams will be moved, if possible. What will remain will be a stripped down roster. This team just won't win.

That is an organizational tank. It really has no reflection on the effort level of the players in the early stages of the process.

 

[moon111]

New Maple Leafs head coach Mike Babcock appears to be in charge of bringing in his own staff of assistants, which is customary.  Jim Hiller will also be leaving the Detroit Red Wings to join Babcock in Toronto.

Source: http://www.letsgoleafs.com/2015/05/24/mike-babcock-starts-building-his-staff/

 

[Kin]

Like Bullfrog said, there will be differences between this group and the last but the difference won't be that the last group was ok with players not trying.

Yeah, I think there will be no question about the effort level of any player that makes the team from this point on. I expect that the 'woe is me' atmosphere that seemed to permeate the team from January onward will disappear quickly.

It actually seems like you disagree with me. Look, Babcock isn't some pyschological genius. There are guys who half-butted it in Detroit. There were nights over the years where the Leafs played Detroit and Detroit didn't look great. In Toronto, Babcock will have games where it's the second night of a back to back and it's February and the Team is 20 points out of a playoff spot and they'll probably look like they're dragging out there.

I still don't buy that what happened in the second half of last year mainly represented an egregious failure of effort on the part of the players. To me it was an entire team collapsing, acknowledging defeat and moving on. I'm not offended by the reactions of certain players the way some seem to be. I don't care that the players didn't seem to display the utmost in professionalism when asked to to re-arrange the deck chairs on the Nonis-Carlyle Titanic. What bothered me is that the team got to be in that position in the first place through a series of bad decisions.

Did personnel play a role? Sure, and weeding out some guys might be needed but if they trade Phaneuf or Kessel on my behalf it better not be because they "didn't try" or whatever. It should be because it fits into their long term goals of building a team good enough that they won't be faced with what they were last season, under talented, poorly coached and with no real options for improvement.

 

[Frank E]

Like Bullfrog said, there will be differences between this group and the last but the difference won't be that the last group was ok with players not trying.

Yeah, I think there will be no question about the effort level of any player that makes the team from this point on. I expect that the 'woe is me' atmosphere that seemed to permeate the team from January onward will disappear quickly.

It actually seems like you disagree with me. Look, Babcock isn't some pyschological genius. There are guys who half-butted it in Detroit. There were nights over the years where the Leafs played Detroit and Detroit didn't look great. In Toronto, Babcock will have games where it's the second night of a back to back and it's February and the Team is 20 points out of a playoff spot and they'll probably look like they're dragging out there.

I still don't buy that what happened in the second half of last year mainly represented an egregious failure of effort on the part of the players. To me it was an entire team collapsing, acknowledging defeat and moving on. I'm not offended by the reactions of certain players the way some seem to be. I don't care that the players didn't seem to display the utmost in professionalism when asked to to re-arrange the deck chairs on the Nonis-Carlyle Titanic. What bothered me is that the team got to be in that position in the first place through a series of bad decisions.

Did personnel play a role? Sure, and weeding out some guys might be needed but if they trade Phaneuf or Kessel on my behalf it better not be because they "didn't try" or whatever. It should be because it fits into their long term goals of building a team good enough that they won't be faced with what they were last season, under talented, poorly coached and with no real options for improvement.

So, it's not OK to trade guys for work ethic issues alone?

 

[Kin]

So, it's not OK to trade guys for work ethic issues alone?

If it runs contrary to their plans for building the team they want.