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That's it! A fan since 1978... Move this topic, delete it, I don't care! Kadri says... "We have to care a bit more"...What in the $&@;$& is that? We saw them compete at the end last night... That's not talent! It's sickening, absolutely sickening... Reimer says " we work hard for that crest" poppycock!! Leaf " blue and white disease" is alive and well. Look at Boston last night... I'm officially $&@);:$& tired of being let down! Have to care more? Ya think? Thank you for letting me vent!!!😡
 
It's definitely frustrating being a fan of this team, especially since the end of the Sundin era.  The funny thing is that since Cliff Fletcher went on his old man yelling at the sky rant about a country club atmosphere that the accountability and effort from the organization seems to have been on a steady downward spiral with little actually changing.

I don't know what team meetings really accomplish in terms of changing a team but the fact that we haven't heard about Dion letting loose on the team concerns me.  The fact that we have our captain standing around and just quitting on plays concerns me. The fact that when the team is struggling to score that Dion can adjust his game to be more offensive minded to compensate concerns me.

The fact that our entire top line is terrible defensively concerns me.  The fact that our second line is getting good possession numbers but can't score concerns me (watching Winnik take plays offside or fumble passes is hard to watch). 

For all of the talk on Kadri's struggles on the faceoff circle by CBC last night.  After Bozak every single Leaf is well below 50% on faceoffs.  Kadri is 2nd on the team at 45.4% although Komarov is at 46% when filling in for Santorelli or taking PK faceoffs.

The biggest thing for me is that in spite of a drastic change to the bottom 7 players on the team the overall system and performance is pretty damn similar to last year. 
 
It was horrible game from top to bottom. We might have had sustained pressure for about 4 minutes in the 3rd when we scored. Other than that, Boston was in full control from puck drop. To think we squandered a gift powerplay not even a minute in the game. We score there and it's probably a different game.

Team as whole is not good enough.
 
mc said:
Team as whole is not good enough.
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They got themselves analytics, 57 layers of management, 3 new assistant coaches, got rid of the goons... and they're worse than last year. Maybe Carlyle has to go, but its the core players that are rotten in this group.
 
2badknees said:
mc said:
Team as whole is not good enough.
Click to expand...

They got themselves analytics, 57 layers of management, 3 new assistant coaches, got rid of the goons... and they're worse than last year. Maybe Carlyle has to go, but its the core players that are rotten in this group.
Click to expand...
Exactly. This core of players don't have the heart or the pride to be winners. I'm done and tired of almost everyone on this team. Kessel is a complimentary player and shouldn't be our best player. Dion is a pretty good defencemN but in now way should he be our #1 defencemN and shouldn't even have a letter on his jersey. Love how our GM went out and got all this depth to roll 4 lines and Carlyle says FU I'll dress 7 DMan and only play 10 forwards while the 11th keeps the bench warm. FIRE CARLYLE and let anyone take over for him in interim.
 
2badknees said:
mc said:
Team as whole is not good enough.
Click to expand...

They got themselves analytics, 57 layers of management, 3 new assistant coaches, got rid of the goons... and they're worse than last year. Maybe Carlyle has to go, but its the core players that are rotten in this group.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say they're worse than last year, last year everything was masked early on. They were just as bad then as they are now.
 
mc said:
It was horrible game from top to bottom. We might have had sustained pressure for about 4 minutes in the 3rd when we scored. Other than that, Boston was in full control from puck drop. To think we squandered a gift powerplay not even a minute in the game. We score there and it's probably a different game.

Team as whole is not good enough.
Click to expand...
I have a hard time believing its just the players. They talk about compete level but the team wasn't non competitive or untalented last year to the point of generationally bad shots against. The players don't help it, but I think the insistence on doing things that don't work over and over is insane.

At the very least we need a different coach. Like Potvin said, the roster has been turned over and he can't make it work. People rag on RW but I think he did a lot more with a lot less.
 
Bender said:
At the very least we need a different coach. Like Potvin said, the roster has been turned over and he can't make it work.
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The additions (Santorelli, Komorov, Winnik) are the only players that are regular contributors. Percy and Polak have been good as well. Its the core that stinks. What this tells me is that they should continue to turn over the roster and start moving players on the top two lines and D.
I agree that Randy isn't a good fit at this point, but I don't believe this team is as bad as it is because of him. They need a full-on culture change that comes from moving top line players, not 3rd and 4th line plugs.
 
Randy has lost the thread, let Horacheck and Spott run the team until Babcock takes over next year. Trade Gardiner and Kadri and whomever for someone decent.  We have plenty of good young defensemen in the works and Gardiner is worth something while Kadri's stock is plummeting. Better to get something for him while we can.
Watching Gardiners frequent gaffes and Kadri' snowflake immitation is wearing thin.  If he sticks around he better pick it up. In the meantime I would love to see Holland moved up to 2nd line duties and demote Amazin Nazim for a while.
Or let the Marlies as a team play one of the Leaf games and shame the team as a whole. They  are painful to watch.
 
We have made the core of this team far far more than it actually is....plain and simple....with the exception of kessel, and sometimes kessel, our " top 6" forwards are 2nd, 3rd line players AT BEST... Except for their contracts of course... NEVER as disillusioned as I was last night! 1978 folks... I remember cheering when salming dressed for game 7 against the islanders... It's tiring to cheer for this bunch....
 
What passes with this team as 'hard work' has been pretty ridiculous for awhile now. Always getting outshot & outhit, spending a ton of time in their own end because they are disorganized. The amount of floating in the game yesterday by the forwards was horrendous.

So what comes next??

Another deconstruction because the management of this team sucks at their jobs??? or even worse some completely shortsighted move that puts the franchise in a worse position....gotta go for those playoff dates that ownership covets.
 
Mike1 said:
What passes with this team as 'hard work' has been pretty ridiculous for awhile now. Always getting outshot & outhit, spending a ton of time in their own end because they are disorganized. The amount of floating in the game yesterday by the forwards was horrendous.

So what comes next??

Another deconstruction because the management of this team sucks at their jobs??? or even worse some completely shortsighted move that puts the franchise in a worse position....gotta go for those playoff dates that ownership covets.
Click to expand...
i covet those playoff dates too. Im sick and tired of hearing how we should be patient and build a contender. At this point sneaking in the playoffs works for me. I miss the intensity of watching the leafs in a playoff series. Plus anything can happen once you sneak in. Ask the Kings and the kc royals.
 
Potvin29 said:
‏@KevinisInGoal

Under Trotz @washcaps D held all 7 opponents under 30 shots so far; last year it took 39 games to get 7 under 30; had 9 of 40+ shots by then
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

To be fair they added two pretty good defensemen in Niskanen and Orpik (not that they both are overpaid) but yeah, it kind of shows what a coach can potentially do to try and help revamp a roster.  It is in no way a guarantee but sometimes a different set of eyes, a new approach can be effective. 

Carlyle's Leafs teams have approached the game the same way the Ducks did at the end of his tenure there.  Poor possession numbers and being a team reliant on good goaltending and their top line outscoring opponents.  Fire Carlyle, run with Spott or Horachuk for the rest of the year and if Babcock wants the job give it to him.  Or just go ahead and hire Bylsma and see if he can turn it around. 

I'm really done with Carlyle.  It's the same set of excuses.  His problems all seem to start and finish with the younger players on the roster when he talks about things and nothing changes.  Maybe Kadri, Gardiner, Kessel and everyone else on the roster really are just arrogant and outright tell the coaching staff "No" when they are asked to do stuff.  Maybe they legitimately practice stuff and then the players ignore everything Carlyle asks them to do on the ice.  Or maybe Carlyle's approach to the game is just completely outdated.  It is quite possible that the roster just isn't very talented too.

Regardless of the reasoning though, firing the coach doesn't preclude change the roster too.  Personally I would love to see what a different set of eyes could do with the team before accepting another 2-4 years of bottom feeding non-playoff hockey rebuild.  It might be coming either way, but I would really like to see one last shot with this core to see if someone can get them playing. 
 
2badknees said:
They got themselves analytics, 57 layers of management, 3 new assistant coaches, got rid of the goons... and they're worse than last year. Maybe Carlyle has to go, but its the core players that are rotten in this group.
Click to expand...

The analytics and the new management group are about long-term impact. The roster was basically set by the time they were brought aboard, so, you were going to see much impact from them this season. As for the assistant coaches, they still have to follow the head coach's lead. As they say, the fish rots from the head. They really aren't any worse than last season, they're just a little less successful.
 
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