Contract: Skittles Edition

[Guilt Trip]

I think Marner can get close to his 11mill if he takes an 8 year deal. As far as centre vs winger argument, I think Mitch is an exception, just like Kane is in Chicago but I still don't think he's getting Matthews money.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think Marner can get close to his 11mill if he takes an 8 year deal. As far as centre vs winger argument, I think Mitch is an exception, just like Kane is in Chicago but I still don't think he's getting Matthews money.

There's exceptions, sure. Kane. Ovechkin. But those two clearly separated themselves from the rest of the pack with their exception personal achievements. Ovi had however many Rocket's. Kane was essentially tied with Hall and Ovi in points per game among wingers in the two seasons prior to him signing his extension and was also coming off a Conn Smyth victory. 

Marner's currently 11th in scoring and is 7th among wingers. He's an amazing player but he's not an exception yet.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think Marner can get close to his 11mill if he takes an 8 year deal. As far as centre vs winger argument, I think Mitch is an exception, just like Kane is in Chicago but I still don't think he's getting Matthews money.

There's exceptions, sure. Kane. Ovechkin. But those two clearly separated themselves from the rest of the pack with their exception personal achievements. Ovi had however many Rocket's. Kane was essentially tied with Hall and Ovi in points per game among wingers in the two seasons prior to him signing his extension and was also coming off a Conn Smyth victory. 

Marner's currently 11th in scoring and is 7th among wingers. He's an amazing player but he's not an exception yet.

Good points. You helping Dubas with the negotiations?

 

[Kin]

Marner's currently 11th in scoring and is 7th among wingers. He's an amazing player but he's not an exception yet.

I think one of the problems here, and why some of the "Dubas should have forced Marner to sign in the summer" stuff is so dumb, is that while some growth in Marner's point totals due to his own progression and being paired with Tavares should have been expected it's also combined with the leaguewide scoring increase that has the 7th best scoring winger putting up numbers that would be in the Art Ross conversation in a lot of previous years.

But, then again, I keep saying we can't just pretend that the revenues aren't different here than they are in Tampa or Colorado so who knows?

 

[Zee]

Ferris made the entire media round today.  From TSN radio, to Sportsnet, to TSN radio in Montreal too    Unreal.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

This could get quite ugly.

 

[Zee]

This could get quite ugly.

Audio from Montreal radio, he talks to both Feschuk and Ferris:

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/montreal-forum-how-much-is-mitch-marner-worth-1.1253189

 

[Bullfrog]

Bob McKenzie has said something, and I'm paraphrasing, that the Marner camp doesn't buy the center vs. winger argument of the center being more valuable and that Marner is every bit as valuable to the Leafs as Matthews.

If that's true it just reinforces my earlier comments that Ferris might not be all that bright. C v. W absolutely makes a difference.

I've never been sold on this argument. If anything, I think the difference -- if it exists -- is overblown.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Bob McKenzie has said something, and I'm paraphrasing, that the Marner camp doesn't buy the center vs. winger argument of the center being more valuable and that Marner is every bit as valuable to the Leafs as Matthews.

If that's true it just reinforces my earlier comments that Ferris might not be all that bright. C v. W absolutely makes a difference.

I've never been sold on this argument. If anything, I think the difference -- if it exists -- is overblown.

Maybe, but goal scoring isn't overblown.

 

[Highlander]

This could get quite ugly.

He is playing the game, Marner is a homeboy and wants to be a Leaf, so its a forgone conclusion that Dubas will play him harder on the lowball, if Mitch wants to play for the Duck or Coyotes I would doubt it, I think he wants to win a Stanley Cup for T.O. and have his statue on Legends Row.  He bleeds Blue and White, so does Tavares and once McDavid contract expires he will want to come home as well.

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/TheFlintor/status/1093188936783024128
Is Mitchy a superstar? Yes. Are Auston and Johnny T superstars? Yes. All contributing now as a core? Yes. When they drafted high the Leafs got a top center and two top wingers and attracted another top center. And in a cap world, that's their core moving forward. Two #1 lines. Three down, one to go.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

Bob McKenzie has said something, and I'm paraphrasing, that the Marner camp doesn't buy the center vs. winger argument of the center being more valuable and that Marner is every bit as valuable to the Leafs as Matthews.

If that's true it just reinforces my earlier comments that Ferris might not be all that bright. C v. W absolutely makes a difference.

I've never been sold on this argument. If anything, I think the difference -- if it exists -- is overblown.

When the law is on your side, argue the law.
When the facts are on your side, argue the facts.
When neither is on your side, puns the table and make a loud emotional speech.

Of course Marner?s agent doesn?t accept Cs are more valuable than the wingers. Similarly, the Leafs will be convinced wingers are worth far less.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/steveburtch/status/1093551372832854016
https://twitter.com/steveburtch/status/1093588096006963200

Thread of Burtch on a bit of a rampage about the narrative around Marner?s value (primary assist generation).

This is kind of fun for me.

 

[L K]

Burch?s numbers are REALLY disingenuous though.  Marner is 15th in even strength primary points over the last three seasons. 

 

[Kin]

Burch?s numbers are REALLY disingenuous though.  Marner is 15th in even strength primary points over the last three seasons.

There's nothing dishonest there. He says himself he's not saying Marner isn't a great player, just that the idea put forth by some that he's head and shoulders above some of his teammates is a little exaggerated.

 

[L K]

Burch?s numbers are REALLY disingenuous though.  Marner is 15th in even strength primary points over the last three seasons.

There's nothing dishonest there. He says himself he's not saying Marner isn't a great player, just that the idea put forth by some that he's head and shoulders above some of his teammates is a little exaggerated.

I guess.  I just look at say these two comments:

I don't think Marner isn't productive, I just think ascribing sooooo much to his passing given who he is passing TO - seems a stretch.

and

I just get the sense people think Marner has always had this impact on other players... Which doesn't align with observed outcomes.

Over three years he has 91 primary points at even strength.  9 fewer points than Matthews and 23 more than Kadri (3rd on the team). 

I don't think there was anyone going around declaring JVR's production to be solely due to Marner in the same way that noone is really trying to claim that Marner is driving Tavares.  But when Marner is significantly outproducing his teammates in terms of primary point production I have a hard time not seeing that as a guy who is excelling at driving offense.

 

[Kin]

But when Marner is significantly outproducing his teammates in terms of primary point production I have a hard time not seeing that as a guy who is excelling at driving offense.

Again, I don't think anyone is suggesting he's not an excellent offensive player. Just that some of the factors that go into that point production have been juiced for him in a way they haven't for some of his teammates.

It's a matter of degree, not a yes/no proposition.

 

[herman]

In the past two seasons prior to this mega season, Nylander and Marner were pretty much neck and neck in primary assists production, closely followed by their respective centres.

Nylander played almost exclusively with Hyman-Matthews, until the Leafs had a lead in the third. Marner was stapled to JvR-Bozak in very curated usage until 2018.

There was a production drop-off for Matthews without Nylander (because Brown was his substitute), as there was for Nylander because he was with Komarov-Kadri. Marleau-Kadri got a huge uptick with Marner, which fuels the perception of magic Mitch (it's not wrong). Less mentioned is how JvR-Bozak were about the same with Brown as they were with Mitch (who was struggling that first half of his sophomore season), and Kadri was no longer shackled to Komarov.

This year, Marner is through the roof because on top of his innate performance, he is mostly playing with exceptional play elevator John Tavares (the dude who can make any puck within reach a dangerous opportunity) and CF% driver Zach Hyman.

 

[disco]

With roughly 50% of their cap going to be spent on 4 guys during the Cup window, I'd say don't get overly attached to anyone not named Auston, Mitch, JT, Willy, Morgan or Freddie. After the top two lines, a defencemen or two and the goalie, it's going to be a steady rotation of cheap young talent and other $750 thousand guys to round out the roster.

Smh at Agent Ferris:
"Not negotiating during season to avoid distractions for Mitch"
Interview: "They're low-balling us."
Mitch barraged with questions next day.
- Slow clap -

 

[dappleganger]