Coronavirus

[Arn]

U.K. government has now shut down pubs, cafes, gyms, non essential shops (I think pharmacies and supermarkets will be allowed to stay open).

They?ve also pledged that they?ll cover 80% of the salaries/wages of those who are now unable to work by these closures.

I?m glad they?ve gone this far as the suggested self isolation wasn?t really working and I?m a little surprised that a Conservative government has done this for the workers. Surprised but pleasantly so. I hope this helps.

I was in my office for the last time for who knows how long but anticipating it to be around 12 weeks minimum. It?s very surreal.

 

[L K]

Someone needs to take Trump out back and keep him away from everyone at this point.  His response to a perfectly legitimate question and an opportunity to bring about reassurance in a difficult period is abhorrent. 

 

[Stebro]

The pace is starting to pick up here in Sweden as well. Stockholm is hit worst. Unfortunately a lot of old people don't listen to the recommendations. The military is helping out now to build temporary buildings so we can deal with more infected. A list of critcal jobs have been listed that must be done no matter what, and a plan for how to take care of their children. I was out walking today, barely any people around, it almost feel as if this is a situation you would see after a nuclear war.

Volvo just announced that they will stop their production here in Sweden on monday, that alone is impacting 20.000 swedes. A lot of restaurants, bars etc have let go of people as well. Taxi companies have seen a reduction of 80% of their customers in the last couple of weeks and may not make it either. In a new report 600.000 swedes are expected to lose their jobs if the goverment can't find a solution. We have a workforce of around 5,8 million and not all of them are employed.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Disturbing trend among millennials and other young people (under age 40)...20% of those in ICUs in Italy & France have reportedly been in their ?20s.  Trend being seen in the U.S. and other countries as well.

https://fortune.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-young-people-getting-sick-covid-19-us-italy-france/

A word to the wise...Coronavirus or COVID-19 can be contacted by anyone regardless of age.  It isn?t solely a boomer or older persons problem anymore.
We?re all in this together.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Profit rules even during pandemic times.  They could have done better...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/whats-being-done-store-shelves-1.5503594?cmp=apple-news_cbc-news_comments#comments-15503594

 

[hockeyfan1]

Hopefully (and praying) it never reaches this stage here in Canada:

Already ? in various parts of the world such as Italy, China and Iran ? precious family members are dying because life-or-death decisions need to be made.

In Canada, this fateful moment is not imminent since our medical system appears to be prepared for the threat of the virus, depending on how bad it gets. At least, that is the hope.

But the same can?t be said for the United States, and its crisis may be contagious. Led by a president who has been ignorant, self-serving and criminally negligent in preparing his country for this crisis, America is on the brink of a catastrophe.

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2020/03/21/covid-19-will-force-horrific-choices-on-americas-private-health-care-system.html

 

[hockeyfan1]

Trump administration ignored warnings months ago about potential virus outbreak:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/20/politics/us-intelligence-reports-trump-coronavirus/index.html

 

[Kin]

I hope something that comes out of this whole situation is just a real change in the way we evaluate people's "contribution" to society. So many people right now, who have all of the same fears and neuroses that we have, are risking their own health to make sure that our society maintains as well as it possibly can. Truck drivers, grocery store workers, anyone involved in food production, civil servants and of course health care workers. While this is obviously a scary time, one of the things keeping me afloat is all of the incredible, selfless efforts I'm seeing out there.

So when we return to some sense of normalcy, I really hope we abandon a lot of our previous notions of "skilled" and "unskilled" jobs and whether or not anyone deserves a living wage. The free market is good at valuing some things but not, as we're seeing, everything.

 

[L K]

Yeah, it's an incredibly important thing to discuss and speak openly about.  Cleaning staff, dietary, porters, volunteers that are manning triage doors for COVID screening.  The taxi drivers and one care/e-z-ride/etc. transport services.  Hell, the people still brewing coffee for takeout to keep everyone on their toes and awake at 3AM.

We really need to get away from the "it's just a minimum wage job" nonsense and recognize that everyone plays a big part in society and show some respect for everyone who is out working all of the time and not just during a crisis.

 

[Highlander]

Thanks Nik and LK for their comments,  we are all in this together and salute all those risking themselves on a daily basis so our lives can go on as much as is possibly normal:

This is one of the best articles about this outbreak that I have read, an interview with Larry Brilliant;

https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus-interview-larry-brilliant-smallpox-epidemiologist/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

[Bates]

I'm no expert in any way on the subject but I wonder if this will jumpstart talk on a Universal Basic Income in Canada? It seems absolutely nuts the sheer number of Canadians who's financial Life is currently at risk. And I'm not talking about just low wage earners.

 

[Kin]

I'm no expert in any way on the subject but I wonder if this will jumpstart talk on a Universal Basic Income in Canada? It seems absolutely nuts the sheer number of Canadians who's financial Life is currently at risk. And I'm not talking about just low wage earners.

I don't know about a UBI the way some people talk about it but I'd hope a much stronger social safety net for sure.

I think a UBI is good in a crisis because it eliminates implementation delays for means testing but long term I think a better approach is in having better EI, better housing policy, better pension and disability benefits and so on.

Regardless, I think it's very telling that in the midst of a crisis we see that people understand a basic economic reality that a lot of people try to ignore. Put money in the hands of people who need it and they spend it, almost always in their local community. Put money in the hands of people who don't need it and they, at the very least, are less likely to spend the money in local communities.

 

[Bates]

I'm no expert in any way on the subject but I wonder if this will jumpstart talk on a Universal Basic Income in Canada? It seems absolutely nuts the sheer number of Canadians who's financial Life is currently at risk. And I'm not talking about just low wage earners.

I don't know about a UBI the way some people talk about it but I'd hope a much stronger social safety net for sure.

I think a UBI is good in a crisis because it eliminates implementation delays for means testing but long term I think a better approach is in having better EI, better housing policy, better pension and disability benefits and so on.

Regardless, I think it's very telling that in the midst of a crisis we see that people understand a basic economic reality that a lot of people try to ignore. Put money in the hands of people who need it and they spend it, almost always in their local community. Put money in the hands of people who don't need it and they, at the very least, are less likely to spend the money in local communities.

For me the most fascinating part of a UBI is the hope that it could easily be administered without a ton of red tape or cost. You are a Canadian, here is your money. Just too simple to ignore especially now. And it should eliminate a lot of other Givt programs and Administration costs. But who am I kidding, Govt will find a way to bog it down.

 

[Kin]

For me the most fascinating part of a UBI is the hope that it could easily be administered without a ton of red tape or cost. You are a Canadian, here is your money.

I agree, that's an appealing aspect of it. But the cost of it is so high(1000 a month for 25 million people, say, is 300 billion dollars a year) that I don't know if it's feasible.

And it should eliminate a lot of other Givt programs and Administration costs.

But that's the rub. Which programs? Is the goal to stimulate the economy or is the goal to make sure that people who need help get actual help that doesn't leave them desperately poor. Because 1000 dollars a month is less than, say, a lot of disabled people get currently. So do you want to make those people poorer? Or eliminate any options they have for low cost housing?

 

[Bates]

For me the most fascinating part of a UBI is the hope that it could easily be administered without a ton of red tape or cost. You are a Canadian, here is your money.

I agree, that's an appealing aspect of it. But the cost of it is so high(1000 a month for 25 million people, say, is 300 billion dollars a year) that I don't know if it's feasible.

And it should eliminate a lot of other Givt programs and Administration costs.

But that's the rub. Which programs? Is the goal to stimulate the economy or is the goal to make sure that people who need help get actual help that doesn't leave them desperately poor. Because 1000 dollars a month is less than, say, a lot of disabled people get currently. So do you want to make those people poorer? Or eliminate any options they have for low cost housing?

Yeah there are definitely issues that would need to be thought out further than my simple post here but my point stands, make it as simple as possible and as easy as possible. A couple of things could make it easier and kinda fairer. The UBI would be the tax free threshold so low income folks get all of the money. Adjust other taxable amounts to reflect that wealthier folks would essentially lose all of the free money. Basically just find a way to ensure all Canadians have enough money to exist and make it easy. And dont penalize low income workers taking away their carrot for working.

 

[Kin]

But "how do we ensure that no one lives in abject poverty" isn't an easy question so the answer isn't going to be simple. Do you adjust for cost of living? Because what's enough to get by in Timmins is drastically different than it is in Toronto.

Again, it's a good idea. It's just not a one size fits all sort of thing that can replace a broader social framework.

 

[Bates]

But "how do we ensure that no one lives in abject poverty" isn't an easy question so the answer isn't going to be simple. Do you adjust for cost of living? Because what's enough to get by in Timmins is drastically different than it is in Toronto.

Again, it's a good idea. It's just not a one size fits all sort of thing that can replace a broader social framework.

I think some people will have to still make Life choices. Should you be unable or unwilling to work to go with your UBI maybe you just can't live in Toronto or Vancouver or wherever. There will never be a program that just lets everyone live the Life they want, I'm just suggesting a way that helps more and doesn't get bogged down with red tape and Administration costs.

 

[Kin]

I think some people will have to still make Life choices. Should you be unable or unwilling to work to go with your UBI maybe you just can't live in Toronto or Vancouver or wherever. There will never be a program that just lets everyone live the Life they want, I'm just suggesting a way that helps more and doesn't get bogged down with red tape and Administration costs.

I don't think it's a question of someone "living the life they want" so much as it is recognizing that different people have different needs. The person in Toronto may be disabled or mentally ill or autistic and have their family or support system around them so packing up and moving to Kapuskasing isn't a realistic option.

What I'm trying to get at is that simply handing people a cheque isn't necessarily helping more. Will it for some people? Yes. But other people need a broad social framework that includes(among other things) housing, social work and special medical services. Whether we like it or not, those things will involve administration and a more thought out response.

 

[barney_rebel]

We stink btw...

 

[hockeyfan1]

Ontario premier Doug Ford shows leadership and non-partisanship in steering the province amid this pandemic crisis:


https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2020/03/22/premier-ford-has-risen-to-the-challenge.html