Coronavirus

[Bender]

I'm all for calling these people idiots, because they are, but I think this highlights a problem we're seeing in a lot of places. You can't partially open stuff without enforcement. You can't say "Beaches are open but only at 33% of regular capacity" without figuring out who gets to go and who doesn't. Because otherwise everyone is going to think they get to go to the beach that day.

And people can blame Toronto all they want but a lack of enforcement of guidelines has been plaguing the provincial response since the beginning.

Can't argue with any of that.

 

[Arn]

The latest from the shower that call themselves the British government:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/boris-johnson-defence-dominic-cummings-anger-from-allies-and-opponents-alike

After putting in place a lockdown and barring people from even doing things like attending funerals of their own family as part of that lockdown, the Prime Minister?s own chief of staff decided to make multiple 260+ mile journeys across the country (with his wife) *both while showing symptoms of the coronavirus*.

Now you would think that like the scientific advisers who had done the same for undermining the lockdown advice (and not even while potentially infected with the virus and spreading it across the country) that would be at least worth an apology and a resignation. ( https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52553229 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171 )

But oh no.

the prime minister said on Sunday that Cummings had ?acted responsibly, legally and with integrity?.

Even the more extreme right wing press including the Daily Mail has said this is a step too far for a pretty horrific attempt at a government and there has been a pretty big backlash from within the Conservative party.

 

[Arn]

Oh and there was also this tweet from the U.K. civil service official account, which has since been deleted  ;D

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1264603769708437506

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I'm all for calling these people idiots, because they are, but I think this highlights a problem we're seeing in a lot of places. You can't partially open stuff without enforcement. You can't say "Beaches are open but only at 33% of regular capacity" without figuring out who gets to go and who doesn't. Because otherwise everyone is going to think they get to go to the beach that day.

And people can blame Toronto all they want but a lack of enforcement of guidelines has been plaguing the provincial response since the beginning.

You can call it whatever you like. But when a good chunk of the province is following the rules and their case numbers show it, yet you watch the protests in Toronto, and the idiots in that park, I think we are within our rights to call them a$$holes.

 

[Kin]

I feel like I covered that in my first six words.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I feel like I covered that in my first six words.

Of course you did.

 

[Kin]

The latest from the shower that call themselves the British government:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/boris-johnson-defence-dominic-cummings-anger-from-allies-and-opponents-alike

After putting in place a lockdown and barring people from even doing things like attending funerals of their own family as part of that lockdown, the Prime Minister?s own chief of staff decided to make multiple 260+ mile journeys across the country (with his wife) *both while showing symptoms of the coronavirus*.

Now you would think that like the scientific advisers who had done the same for undermining the lockdown advice (and not even while potentially infected with the virus and spreading it across the country) that would be at least worth an apology and a resignation. ( https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52553229 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171 )

But oh no.

the prime minister said on Sunday that Cummings had ?acted responsibly, legally and with integrity?.

Even the more extreme right wing press including the Daily Mail has said this is a step too far for a pretty horrific attempt at a government and there has been a pretty big backlash from within the Conservative party.

In a way I feel like the Cummings stuff is sort of a perfect encapsulation of what I'm talking about. His defenders are saying that, you know, it was reasonable to have the concerns he did and the risk wasn't very high for him or his family.

But, again, the issue is always going to be about whether or not what's relatively safe for one person to do is safe for everyone to do and if everyone who got sick decided to go for long drives, well, it wouldn't be safe. That's why any guideline or even rule is useless without enforcement.

Right now Rob Ford is constantly talking about how he's reluctant to impose on commercial landlords something that would stop them from kicking out tenants and hopes they'll just choose to do the "right" thing on their own. I'm really not sure how much more evidence we need that people aren't choosing the right things and actual enforceable regulation is the only real way out of this.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The latest from the shower that call themselves the British government:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/boris-johnson-defence-dominic-cummings-anger-from-allies-and-opponents-alike

After putting in place a lockdown and barring people from even doing things like attending funerals of their own family as part of that lockdown, the Prime Minister?s own chief of staff decided to make multiple 260+ mile journeys across the country (with his wife) *both while showing symptoms of the coronavirus*.

Now you would think that like the scientific advisers who had done the same for undermining the lockdown advice (and not even while potentially infected with the virus and spreading it across the country) that would be at least worth an apology and a resignation. ( https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52553229 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52177171 )

But oh no.

the prime minister said on Sunday that Cummings had ?acted responsibly, legally and with integrity?.

Even the more extreme right wing press including the Daily Mail has said this is a step too far for a pretty horrific attempt at a government and there has been a pretty big backlash from within the Conservative party.

In a way I feel like the Cummings stuff is sort of a perfect encapsulation of what I'm talking about. His defenders are saying that, you know, it was reasonable to have the concerns he did and the risk wasn't very high for him or his family.

But, again, the issue is always going to be about whether or not what's relatively safe for one person to do is safe for everyone to do and if everyone who got sick decided to go for long drives, well, it wouldn't be safe. That's why any guideline or even rule is useless without enforcement.

Right now Rob Ford is constantly talking about how he's reluctant to impose on commercial landlords something that would stop them from kicking out tenants and hopes they'll just choose to do the "right" thing on their own. I'm really not sure how much more evidence we need that people aren't choosing the right things and actual enforceable regulation is the only real way out of this.

Rob Ford as well as Justin Trudeau and other politicians are playing a political game with this. They are using it as an opportunity to gain votes. So, when it comes to making the real tough decisions, they sit on the fence and hope that both sides figure it out oni their own so they can take credit for over seeing it.

 

[Kin]

Rob Ford as well as Justin Trudeau and other politicians are playing a political game with this. They are using it as an opportunity to gain votes. So, when it comes to making the real tough decisions, they sit on the fence and hope that both sides figure it out oni their own so they can take credit for over seeing it.

I guess I'm not sure I see siding with small businesses over commercial landlords as being a particularly tough decision politically. It's not like commercial real estate magnates have a big constituency. And I think both guys have drawn their fair share of plaudits and for good reason.

Now, Ford at some point is going to have to answer for Ontario's relatively poor performance in terms of actual numbers and I'm not sure that applies to Trudeau as much but I think there's a reason both guys are seeing their approval numbers jump outside of just crisis solidarity.

 

[Bullfrog]

People should keep in mind that part of the reasons why smaller towns/cities haven't been affected as badly is because there's been such a concerted effort to reduce even in-province travel. The more relaxed things get, the more likely people are to go to their cottages and such, the more likely things will spread outside of the problem areas.

As a lot of people smarter than me have said, if strict containment measures work then you'll get people questioning if they were necessary because they won't see the damage that was avoided.

You're right on here. I'm up in Northwestern Ontario where we've not been hit hard with the virus at all. Despite the relative feeling of complacency (i.e. knowing there's a very low public risk here at the moment) people here have been surprisingly vigilant with following the guidelines and rules.

There is a general sense of anxiety though as we're basically waiting for the shoe to drop.

Our hospital emergency department usually runs at 115% capacity but has been running at less than 60%. It's starting to climb up into the 80% range now.

In our city of 110,000 (maybe 150,000 in the district?), we've had only 81 confirmed cases. There are only 2 active cases, with one deceased and the rest resolved.

 

[Kin]

You're right on here. I'm up in Northwestern Ontario where we've not been hit hard with the virus at all. Despite the relative feeling of complacency (i.e. knowing there's a very low public risk here at the moment) people here have been surprisingly vigilant with following the guidelines and rules.

There is a general sense of anxiety though as we're basically waiting for the shoe to drop.

Our hospital emergency department usually runs at 115% capacity but has been running at less than 60%. It's starting to climb up into the 80% range now.

In our city of 110,000 (maybe 150,000 in the district?), we've had only 81 confirmed cases. There are only 2 active cases, with one deceased and the rest resolved.

Yeah, I do think people need to keep some of that in mind when looking at Toronto. Toronto isn't a hotspot because people were irresponsible or even population density. It's just that it's where a ton of people live and where a lot of people enter the country.

Obviously the people at Trinity Bellwoods were being stupid but you're not seeing a lot of people who are making responsible decisions at their own expense. My parents at this time of the year would have usually been up at our farm in the Kawarthas but instead are staying at home in a neighbourhood where two of their local grocery stores have had virus outbreaks as well as the nearest ER.

 

[Frank E]

You're right on here. I'm up in Northwestern Ontario where we've not been hit hard with the virus at all. Despite the relative feeling of complacency (i.e. knowing there's a very low public risk here at the moment) people here have been surprisingly vigilant with following the guidelines and rules.

There is a general sense of anxiety though as we're basically waiting for the shoe to drop.

Our hospital emergency department usually runs at 115% capacity but has been running at less than 60%. It's starting to climb up into the 80% range now.

In our city of 110,000 (maybe 150,000 in the district?), we've had only 81 confirmed cases. There are only 2 active cases, with one deceased and the rest resolved.

Yeah, I do think people need to keep some of that in mind when looking at Toronto. Toronto isn't a hotspot because people were irresponsible or even population density. It's just that it's where a ton of people live and where a lot of people enter the country.

Obviously the people at Trinity Bellwoods were being stupid but you're not seeing a lot of people who are making responsible decisions at their own expense. My parents at this time of the year would have usually been up at our farm in the Kawarthas but instead are staying at home in a neighbourhood where two of their local grocery stores have had virus outbreaks as well as the nearest ER.

How's the pickled fish from those stores?

 

[Kin]

How's the pickled fish from those stores?

Like everything in Toronto, better than things from anywhere else.

 

[bustaheims]

Yeah, I do think people need to keep some of that in mind when looking at Toronto. Toronto isn't a hotspot because people were irresponsible or even population density. It's just that it's where a ton of people live and where a lot of people enter the country.

Obviously the people at Trinity Bellwoods were being stupid but you're not seeing a lot of people who are making responsible decisions at their own expense. My parents at this time of the year would have usually been up at our farm in the Kawarthas but instead are staying at home in a neighbourhood where two of their local grocery stores have had virus outbreaks as well as the nearest ER.

Where in the Kawarthas? My fiancee's family has a cottage up in that area near Coboconk.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I do think people need to keep some of that in mind when looking at Toronto. Toronto isn't a hotspot because people were irresponsible or even population density. It's just that it's where a ton of people live and where a lot of people enter the country.

Obviously the people at Trinity Bellwoods were being stupid but you're not seeing a lot of people who are making responsible decisions at their own expense. My parents at this time of the year would have usually been up at our farm in the Kawarthas but instead are staying at home in a neighbourhood where two of their local grocery stores have had virus outbreaks as well as the nearest ER.

Where in the Kawarthas? My fiancee's family has a cottage up in that area near Coboconk.

I'm being a little generous geographically there but it's outside of the town of Bancroft.

 

[Frank E]

Yeah, I do think people need to keep some of that in mind when looking at Toronto. Toronto isn't a hotspot because people were irresponsible or even population density. It's just that it's where a ton of people live and where a lot of people enter the country.

Obviously the people at Trinity Bellwoods were being stupid but you're not seeing a lot of people who are making responsible decisions at their own expense. My parents at this time of the year would have usually been up at our farm in the Kawarthas but instead are staying at home in a neighbourhood where two of their local grocery stores have had virus outbreaks as well as the nearest ER.

Where in the Kawarthas? My fiancee's family has a cottage up in that area near Coboconk.

I'm being a little generous geographically there but it's outside of the town of Bancroft.

I've got a nice little spot in the Muskokas that I'm looking forward to spending some time at soon.

It's near the city of London.

 

[Kin]

I've got a nice little spot in the Muskokas that I'm looking forward to spending some time at soon.

It's near the city of London.

Jeez, I don't know. It's north of St. Clair so all I know is it's untamed wilderness full of meth heads.

 

[Frank E]

I've got a nice little spot in the Muskokas that I'm looking forward to spending some time at soon.

It's near the city of London.

Jeez, I don't know. It's north of St. Clair so all I know is it's untamed wilderness full of meth heads.

And a bunch of CPC voters...be careful up there, they're all nuts.

 

[Kin]

Jeez, I don't know. It's north of St. Clair so all I know is it's untamed wilderness full of meth heads.

And a bunch of CPC voters...

Department of Redundancy Department.

 

[Frank E]

Does anyone personally know anybody that has it/had it?