Dave Nonis is a bust

[sickbeast]

He has done great damage to the franchise even though he has done very little. Signing Clarkson and buying out grabovski is bad enough on its own. Then you can add in letting MacArthur go and the bernier trade. The only deal I like is the trade for Peter Holland. The bernier deal is ok, but scrivens may be better.

 

[Redleaf]

What am I missing?

He's 3 for 4 on the big deals he's made so far..

Bolland- great deal
Bernier- great deal
Holland- great deal
Clarkson- not so great to date

The biggest reason I like him is his patience with the younger guys. He hasn't done what virtually every other GM in the modern NHL area has done in Toronto, namely trade away youth for veterans, for a get-rich-quick approach.

Love the guy!

 

[Jalili]

What am I missing?

He's 3 for 4 on the big deals he's made so far..

Bolland- great deal
Bernier- great deal
Holland- great deal
Clarkson- not so great to date

The biggest reason I like him is his patience with the younger guys. He hasn't done what virtually every other GM in the modern NHL area has done in Toronto, namely trade away youth for veterans, for a get-rich-quick approach.

Love the guy!

Bernier sure, but calling the Bolland/Holland deals great is a bit generous. I'm not sure on what basis they've proven to be great deals.

 

[Redleaf]

What am I missing?

He's 3 for 4 on the big deals he's made so far..

Bolland- great deal
Bernier- great deal
Holland- great deal
Clarkson- not so great to date

The biggest reason I like him is his patience with the younger guys. He hasn't done what virtually every other GM in the modern NHL area has done in Toronto, namely trade away youth for veterans, for a get-rich-quick approach.

Love the guy!

Bernier sure, but calling the Bolland/Holland deals great is a bit generous. I'm not sure on what basis they've proven to be great deals.

I'm basing it on the cost to acquire them plus their overall play for Toronto this season, when given appropriate ice time and opportunity, or in Bolland's case, not injured.

 

[Jalili]

What am I missing?

He's 3 for 4 on the big deals he's made so far..

Bolland- great deal
Bernier- great deal
Holland- great deal
Clarkson- not so great to date

The biggest reason I like him is his patience with the younger guys. He hasn't done what virtually every other GM in the modern NHL area has done in Toronto, namely trade away youth for veterans, for a get-rich-quick approach.

Love the guy!

Bernier sure, but calling the Bolland/Holland deals great is a bit generous. I'm not sure on what basis they've proven to be great deals.

I'm basing it on the cost to acquire them plus their overall play for Toronto this season, when given appropriate ice time and opportunity, or in Bolland's case, not injured.

It's not as if we gave up pennies to get them though.

I'm as optimistic as the next guy that Bolland can help the team with its playoff push, but to date the team has given up a 2nd round pick plus two 4ths for 15 games of Bolland (who is unsigned beyond this season). It's hard to really call that a great deal.

 

[Kin]

Bernier sure, but calling the Bolland/Holland deals great is a bit generous. I'm not sure on what basis they've proven to be great deals.

Again, this seems like another case of exaggertion being met in kind. I don't think any of his deals have been great, although the Bernier one looks pretty good right now, but aside from Clarkson there aren't any train wrecks either.

 

[bustaheims]

While obviously Nonis hasn't been a fantastic success or anything, calling him a bust after 15 months as GM is a little premature.

 

[ZBBM]

Bernier sure, but calling the Bolland/Holland deals great is a bit generous. I'm not sure on what basis they've proven to be great deals.

Again, this seems like another case of exaggertion being met in kind. I don't think any of his deals have been great, although the Bernier one looks pretty good right now, but aside from Clarkson there aren't any train wrecks either.

Yeah, but it's a train wreck of cosmic proportions.  Anything that threatens to trigger a Big Crunch deserves to be called a bust.  A Big Bust.

BANG >>>> Nonis appears >>>> CRUNCH = BUST

 

[Kin]

Yeah, but it's a train wreck of cosmic proportions.  Anything that threatens to trigger a Big Crunch deserves to be called a bust.  A Big Bust.

BANG >>>> Nonis appears >>>> CRUNCH = BUST

Honestly, right now, I see the Bernier acquisition as being more of a positive than the Clarkson signing is a negative.

 

[sickbeast]

Yeah, but it's a train wreck of cosmic proportions.  Anything that threatens to trigger a Big Crunch deserves to be called a bust.  A Big Bust.

BANG >>>> Nonis appears >>>> CRUNCH = BUST

Honestly, right now, I see the Bernier acquisition as being more of a positive than the Clarkson signing is a negative.

reimer would have been fine and scrivens would have been a very serviceable backup.

 

[Kin]

reimer would have been fine and scrivens would have been a very serviceable backup.

If this team is ever going to serious contend, built around the players it's built around, they're going to need better than "fine" and "serviceable" from their goaltenders.

 

[sickbeast]

reimer would have been fine and scrivens would have been a very serviceable backup.

If this team is ever going to serious contend, built around the players it's built around, they're going to need better than "fine" and "serviceable" from their goaltenders.

if you want your cookie, bernier was the one thing Nonis did right. They have ruined reimer though.

 

[Kin]

if you want your cookie, bernier was the one thing Nonis did right.

I disagree. The Bolland trade was a good one that was derailed by injury. Raymond has been a valuable addition. Bozak's contract looks pretty good right now. I'm happy with the Kessel extension. The Gleason trade has paid some dividends and so on.

 

[sickbeast]

Fair enough. The Clarkson thing is so bad that I forgot about all of that. Clarkson is going to haunt the leafs like an albatross for a generation.

 

[Bullfrog]

He has done great damage to the franchise even though he has done very little. Signing Clarkson and buying out grabovski is bad enough on its own. Then you can add in letting MacArthur go and the bernier trade. The only deal I like is the trade for Peter Holland. The bernier deal is ok, but scrivens may be better.

Clarkson: agreed, it was bad.
Grabovksi: I was one of the most vocal critics of that move, but it's turned out ok I think. I think Holland or Bolland could fill that void.
MacArthur: this has nothing to do with Nonis. He was a free agent and clearly not willing to play for Carlyle.
Bernier: completely disagree. It's one of his better deals.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Which GM could we replace him with that is better?  Mike Gillis?  He messed up everything Nonis set up for that franchise.  The only available GM that is better is Burke and it would have to be a big public apology to get him back here.

 

[Jalili]

Bernier sure, but calling the Bolland/Holland deals great is a bit generous. I'm not sure on what basis they've proven to be great deals.

Again, this seems like another case of exaggertion being met in kind. I don't think any of his deals have been great, although the Bernier one looks pretty good right now, but aside from Clarkson there aren't any train wrecks either.

As much as it was a hyperbole, I would still contend that neither the Holland or Bolland moves have amounted to anything substantial enough yet that we should be using them as an argument in Nonis' favour. Both those deals could still go either way.

 

[Kin]

As much as it was a hyperbole, I would still contend that neither the Holland or Bolland moves have amounted to anything substantial enough yet that we should be using them as an argument in Nonis' favour. Both those deals could still go either way.

I'd agree if the reason that you were saying that about the Bolland trade wasn't what was essentially a freak injury. I think we saw enough from Bolland and what bringing him over here could have meant that you have to rate the trade fairly positively even if it didn't produce the exact results you might have wanted.

 

[Jalili]

As much as it was a hyperbole, I would still contend that neither the Holland or Bolland moves have amounted to anything substantial enough yet that we should be using them as an argument in Nonis' favour. Both those deals could still go either way.

I'd agree if the reason that you were saying that about the Bolland trade wasn't what was essentially a freak injury. I think we saw enough from Bolland and what bringing him over here could have meant that you have to rate the trade fairly positively even if it didn't produce the exact results you might have wanted.

Fair enough, that's definitely true.

 

[lc9]

The Phanuef extension will set this franchise back as well.  Clarkson and Phanuef are both pretty bad players, and they locked up for 6 and 7 years to come.

Nonis has done a pretty awful job overall.  His insisntence on keeping Carlyle coach is also a detriment.  Carlyle has to go.  Unfortunately a root cause of awfulness for this team with be Phanuef, because he will get lots of minutes for years to come and he is the one of the worst defenders in hockey.  Absolutely no IQ for hockey.