Development of the Youth

[Heroic Shrimp]

Not quite sure what qualifies as a moment of brilliance, but he's making some pretty big saves that look rather ordinary at times but are actually pretty tough stops. 

I'd say that in the context I was meaning it it's less about any particular save than it is playing at least the length of an entire game at the level of the goalie that you'd eventually want him to be on a full-time basis. I haven't seen that from Reimer in a long while.

I'd argue that in back-to-back games this week, Reimer played opposite two of the best goalies in the world (Lundqvist and Miller), and was the better goalie in both games.  Argue it if you will, but if that statement is true, then it speaks to Reimer's ability and/or conversely to the sometimes overlooked imperfections of even the best goalies in the world.

All goalies give up both questionable and bad goals.  The best goalies just give up fewer of them.  I'm not arguing that Reimer is a world-class goalie, but if he can hold his own head-to-head like that, he's pulling his weight, at least so far this season.

I agree, but you know its going to rain down on you now, for saying something positive.  ;D

I'm confident that perspective, logic, moderation and grammar are my allies.

 

[Kin]

I'd argue that in back-to-back games this week, Reimer played opposite two of the best goalies in the world (Lundqvist and Miller), and was the better goalie in both games.  Argue it if you will, but if that statement is true, then it speaks to Reimer's ability and/or conversely to the sometimes overlooked imperfections of even the best goalies in the world.

Well, leaving aside the arguments we could have as to whether or not the substance of that statement is true I don't think anyone labours under the delusion that any goalie is perfect. Like I said, my point here isn't about the occasional gaffes that all goalies make but rather the peaks they hit in between them. That's where I think Reimer has been lacking. That the goalies at the other end, regardless of who they are, may be at the same level in two games doesn't in and of itself make Reimer's play at the level I'm talking about.

 

[Jay-Mar]

I think people forget that this is only Reimer's 3 season at the NHL Level yet has a career save % at .911 . Joe Bowen brought this up the other day but if you look up Ryan Miller at the same point in his career the numbers are very similar. Im not saying he's the next Miller but give him some time and his potential might be great.

 

[Kin]

I think people forget that this is only Reimer's 3 season at the NHL Level yet has a career save % at .911 . Joe Bowen brought this up the other day but if you look up Ryan Miller at the same point in his career the numbers are very similar. Im not saying he's the next Miller but give him some time and his potential might be great.

It's off-topic but just in general I think Miller is a little bit overrated. He's got the one Vezina season but he's never really been close to that level in any other year. Luongo, for instance, I think is just as good.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I think people forget that this is only Reimer's 3 season at the NHL Level yet has a career save % at .911 . Joe Bowen brought this up the other day but if you look up Ryan Miller at the same point in his career the numbers are very similar. Im not saying he's the next Miller but give him some time and his potential might be great.

It's off-topic but just in general I think Miller is a little bit overrated. He's got the one Vezina season but he's never really been close to that level in any other year. Luongo, for instance, I think is just as good.

I think it speaks to the nature of goaltending in general that very, very few goalies are consistently among the absolute top goalies year after year.  It's amazing that, just glancing at Vezina nominations over the last 5 years, 11 different goalies got those 15 nominations.  Only Rinne, Thomas, Lundqvist and Brodeur had more than one nomination (2 each).  So, on one hand, I'd still call Miller one of the best goalies in the world.  One the other, I'd also put him and others like Luongo somewhere in the top 10, maybe 15?, which will be very subjective and vary a lot year by year on anybody's list.

So I'd agree he's over-rated if people think he's a perennial Vezina nominee.  Do you think that's the general perception...?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I'd argue that in back-to-back games this week, Reimer played opposite two of the best goalies in the world (Lundqvist and Miller), and was the better goalie in both games.  Argue it if you will, but if that statement is true, then it speaks to Reimer's ability and/or conversely to the sometimes overlooked imperfections of even the best goalies in the world.

Well, leaving aside the arguments we could have as to whether or not the substance of that statement is true I don't think anyone labours under the delusion that any goalie is perfect. Like I said, my point here isn't about the occasional gaffes that all goalies make but rather the peaks they hit in between them. That's where I think Reimer has been lacking. That the goalies at the other end, regardless of who they are, may be at the same level in two games doesn't in and of itself make Reimer's play at the level I'm talking about.

No, of course.  I'm just trying to make sure that the goaltending expectations for Reimer shouldn't be to an standard unachievable by any goalie.  All I can say is that, in watching his past few games, there have been multiple times I fully expected goals against to be scored in various situations, and multiple times he's made the stops.  I feel like I've been seeing the 'peaks' you're not seeing, or not considering to be such peaks.  I've been overall quite happy with what I've seen from Reimer, and I hope he can continue it, and even better, to improve upon it.

 

[Kin]

I think it speaks to the nature of goaltending in general that very, very few goalies are consistently among the absolute top goalies year after year.  It's amazing that, just glancing at Vezina nominations over the last 5 years, 11 different goalies got those 15 nominations.  Only Rinne, Thomas, Lundqvist and Brodeur had more than one nomination (2 each).  So, on one hand, I'd still call Miller one of the best goalies in the world.  One the other, I'd also put him and others like Luongo somewhere in the top 10, maybe 15?, which will be very subjective and vary a lot year by year on anybody's list.

So I'd agree he's over-rated if people think he's a perennial Vezina nominee.  Do you think that's the general perception...?

I think the general perception is that he's either on that sort of top-tier of goalies with guys like Rinne and Lundqvist and Quick, I suppose is there now, or that he's right below it. Personally, I think he's squarely more with guys like Ward and Price and Backstrom and that he's middle of the pack with those guys.

 

[sickbeast]

It's about time that the Leafs' youth started making some progress.  I was getting really frustrated.

As for the Leafs tanking, it's really doubtful after seeing how they have played so far this season.  They just don't look like a team that's going to stink up the joint every night.  They look like they are going to battle for the 8th playoff seed, just like they have done for how many years now.

What I'm hoping is that if they are on the cusp at the trade deadline, Nonis has a fire sale and trades off everyone for picks and prospects.  By that I mean Kessel, Phaneuf, and anyone else that has a decent trade value at the deadline whereby the Leafs would get at least a 2nd round pick out of the deal.

 

[Kin]

No, of course.  I'm just trying to make sure that the goaltending expectations for Reimer shouldn't be to an standard unachievable by any goalie.  All I can say is that, in watching his past few games, there have been multiple times I fully expected goals against to be scored in various situations, and multiple times he's made the stops.

I'm trying not to repeat myself here but just to stress, my point here is not that Reimer has yet to make any nice saves. I'm talking about games or a single game of excellent, top flight play. I don't think one game of stealing the show, and no matter who's at fault for the goals letting in four and taking the loss doesn't qualify, and standing on one's head every now and then if only to serve as a reminder of what a goalie might be capable of is an unrealistic standard to set unless the goalie isn't capable of doing that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Stephen Burtch posted this on twitter the other day, but kind of a sobering reminder of the value of holding onto prospects, as this would be a really solid team.

http://capgeek.com/fantasy-calculator/roster/1330

 

[bustaheims]

Stephen Burtch posted this on twitter the other day, but kind of a sobering reminder of the value of holding onto prospects, as this would be a really solid team.

http://capgeek.com/fantasy-calculator/roster/1330

Looks like a pretty mediocre team to me. The defence is pretty suspect and there's not a whole lot of offence either. Outside of the goaltending, I'd say that team is weaker than the current roster. I'm a big proponent of hanging on to picks and prospects, but that roster does nothing to support that, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Kin]

Stephen Burtch posted this on twitter the other day, but kind of a sobering reminder of the value of holding onto prospects, as this would be a really solid team.

http://capgeek.com/fantasy-calculator/roster/1330

I don't know how you did it but you managed to build a team worse than the Leafs.

edit: Also, I don't get it. It seems like it's a list of players the Leafs drafted but with Phil Kessel to make it look a little less sad.

 

[TML fan]

Yay for cap space, I suppose?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

No, of course.  I'm just trying to make sure that the goaltending expectations for Reimer shouldn't be to an standard unachievable by any goalie.  All I can say is that, in watching his past few games, there have been multiple times I fully expected goals against to be scored in various situations, and multiple times he's made the stops.

I'm trying not to repeat myself here but just to stress, my point here is not that Reimer has yet to make any nice saves. I'm talking about games or a single game of excellent, top flight play. I don't think one game of stealing the show, and no matter who's at fault for the goals letting in four and taking the loss doesn't qualify, and standing on one's head every now and then if only to serve as a reminder of what a goalie might be capable of is an unrealistic standard to set unless the goalie isn't capable of doing that.

I'll go along with that.  For too many years, the Leafs have had goaltending that too often either lost them the game or at least enabled losses.  Right now, Reimer is giving them goaltending that allows the team a decent chance to win games.  The next step up, whether he can reach it or not, is providing goaltending that sometimes or frequently outright wins games, almost regardless of team performance.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I think it speaks to the nature of goaltending in general that very, very few goalies are consistently among the absolute top goalies year after year.  It's amazing that, just glancing at Vezina nominations over the last 5 years, 11 different goalies got those 15 nominations.  Only Rinne, Thomas, Lundqvist and Brodeur had more than one nomination (2 each).  So, on one hand, I'd still call Miller one of the best goalies in the world.  One the other, I'd also put him and others like Luongo somewhere in the top 10, maybe 15?, which will be very subjective and vary a lot year by year on anybody's list.

So I'd agree he's over-rated if people think he's a perennial Vezina nominee.  Do you think that's the general perception...?

I think the general perception is that he's either on that sort of top-tier of goalies with guys like Rinne and Lundqvist and Quick, I suppose is there now, or that he's right below it. Personally, I think he's squarely more with guys like Ward and Price and Backstrom and that he's middle of the pack with those guys.

I think if he's over-rated in that way, and I agree with his overall standing, it's probably more so in Toronto in particular, and not necessarily league wide.  We see him way too often every year, and his record against Toronto is stellar.

 

[Jay-Mar]

with the development of youth as the topic im surprised no one has mentioned the biggest surprise thus far in Mike Kostka. Playing huge minutes.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Stephen Burtch posted this on twitter the other day, but kind of a sobering reminder of the value of holding onto prospects, as this would be a really solid team.

http://capgeek.com/fantasy-calculator/roster/1330

I don't know how you did it but you managed to build a team worse than the Leafs.

edit: Also, I don't get it. It seems like it's a list of players the Leafs drafted but with Phil Kessel to make it look a little less sad.

Except it's based on advanced stats.  As Stephen Burtch said, Steen is arguably the best C from a Corsi perspective in the NHL, and Stalberg outperforms Kane/Toews from a Corsi perspective.  The rest is very solid depth scoring.

And I think the point is that that team would probably be just as good as this team, but with a lot more cap space to work with.

 

[lamajama]

Don't forget Kessel is only 25 years old and only three months older than Frattin.

I had no idea of that

 

[Fanatic]

I thought Reimer looked good tonight. To clarify, he looked better than average and be looked like a solid #1 in development.

I am encouraged that he can be the guy.

 

[leafplasma]

with the development of youth as the topic im surprised no one has mentioned the biggest surprise thus far in Mike Kostka. Playing huge minutes.

He isn't young at 27, that's why.