Flames @ Leafs - Feb. 22nd, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[herman]

So we'd have Pietrangelo but no Nylander and no Brodie...Exactly how is that an upgrade?

It's very easy to see it as an upgrade if you think Nylander is worthless.

I was thinking something along the lines of Nylander +depth  for Wilson and a 1st or top prospect, adds a little cap relief and that extra 1st would come in handy to address the upcoming goaltending situation/other other needs. Who knows, it's also possible Washington wouldn't deal Wilson for him straight up, can't gauge a lot of the GM's out there. 

Wilson's player profile might be interesting (see Tkachuk conversation earlier), but Washington probably isn't the best trade partner for the Leafs if we're looking for a quality 1st rd and/or prospect. Ideally, we add a power forward without giving up from our Big 4.

 

[bustaheims]

I was thinking something along the lines of Nylander +depth  for Wilson and a 1st or top prospect, adds a little cap relief and that extra 1st would come in handy to address the upcoming goaltending situation/other other needs. Who knows, it's also possible Washington wouldn't deal Wilson for him straight up, can't gauge a lot of the GM's out there.

In terms of talent, Washington comes out way ahead in a Nylander-Wilson swap - more than a mid-to-late 1st round pick would make up for. The Caps might not make the trade, because, from a team make-up perspective, they need a Wilson-type more than a Nylander-type winger, but, on a pure talent perspective, it's not close.

 

[ZBBM]

So we'd have Pietrangelo but no Nylander and no Brodie...Exactly how is that an upgrade?

It's very easy to see it as an upgrade if you think Nylander is worthless.

I was thinking something along the lines of Nylander +depth  for Wilson and a 1st or top prospect, adds a little cap relief and that extra 1st would come in handy to address the upcoming goaltending situation/other other needs. Who knows, it's also possible Washington wouldn't deal Wilson for him straight up, can't gauge a lot of the GM's out there. 

Wilson's player profile might be interesting (see Tkachuk conversation earlier), but Washington probably isn't the best trade partner for the Leafs if we're looking for a quality 1st rd and/or prospect. Ideally, we add a power forward without giving up from our Big 4.

You mean like when Simmonds comes back?


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[herman]

You mean like when Simmonds comes back?

I like Simmonds, but I would have trouble characterizing him as a power forward at this point. PP specialist for sure.

That being said, he might be a good match for Tavares at the moment, who is playing some kind of weird high skilled but choppy messy 4th line style hockey. Like localized dump and chase where he's just pushing broken play after broken play towards the net. You can see how he is just unable to mesh this year with the finesse hockey that Nylander, Matthews, and Marner thrive on.

 

[L K]

You mean like when Simmonds comes back?

I like Simmonds, but I would have trouble characterizing him as a power forward at this point. PP specialist for sure.

That being said, he might be a good match for Tavares at the moment, who is playing some kind of weird high skilled but choppy messy 4th line style hockey. Like localized dump and chase where he's just pushing broken play after broken play towards the net. You can see how he is just unable to mesh this year with the finesse hockey that Nylander, Matthews, and Marner thrive on.

On that note would a Hyman - Tavares - Simmonds line be worth looking at.

You might need to find a better winger to play with Nylander/Kerfoot

 

[bustaheims]

On that note would a Hyman - Tavares - Simmonds line be worth looking at.

You might need to find a better winger to play with Nylander/Kerfoot

Or a C to play between them. Kerfoot has been better on the wing than down the middle. Maybe Spezza? He seems like he could be a good fit there. Or, if by some miracle, the Leafs can turn Galchenyuk back into a quality NHL player...

 

[CarltonTheBear]

On that note would a Hyman - Tavares - Simmonds line be worth looking at.

You might need to find a better winger to play with Nylander/Kerfoot

Or a C to play between them. Kerfoot has been better on the wing than down the middle. Maybe Spezza? He seems like he could be a good fit there. Or, if by some miracle, the Leafs can turn Galchenyuk back into a quality NHL player...

You guys, Mikheyev exists...

Thornton-Matthews-Marner
Hyman-Tavares-Simmonds
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Nylander

Hmmm this also lines up almost perfectly so you know it's good.

 

[bustaheims]

You guys, Mikheyev exists...

Thornton-Matthews-Marner
Hyman-Tavares-Simmonds
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Nylander

Hmmm this also lines up almost perfectly so you know it's good.

Hmm. Maybe. Could also try Nylander as the C again, if Kerfoot struggles. Also, if that could help Mikheyev start converting on all those glorious chances he generates, all the better (even if most of them have been on the PK - a little more success would be a nice little confidence boost that could translate across).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Actually I would swap Simmonds and Mikheyev there. Mikheyev-Tavares-Hyman becomes the new checking line with some added offensive pop by putting Tavares there, and something like Engvall*-Kerfoot-Nylander (they can decide amongst themselves who plays C) (*until Simmonds returns) is the "sheltered" line that should put up offence against lesser competition.

In any event, I do think there's a case to be made that Nylander and Tavares could benefit from splitting up, at least for now. And if the Matthews-Marner combo isn't getting broken up it makes sense for them to have their own lines.

 

[herman]

I think I'd still want someone who could carry through the NZ and push defenses back for Tavares and Simmonds to catch up, so Mikheyev fits in my mind, as a player who also doesn't really handle the puck but pushes it into open ice and chases it down and does it again and again. Hyman's skills would fit Kerfoot and Nylander as a good forecheck to free up more give and go space. You could reconfigure the line to put Kerfoot in the middle, but Kerfoot is at his best coming through with speed up the boards causing problems and Nylander is at his best swinging up through the middle where he has maximum passing options or skating space.

Thornton - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Nylander - Hyman
Mikheyev - Tavares - Simmonds
Petan/Robertson - Boyd - Spezza/Engvall

 

[Stronger Than All]

come back Campbell and Andersen!  Yes I know we need to score goals but we still need them.

I think the Tavares signing is not looking good in a cap world.  I hate to say it.

Other than that, we're still in first place!

 

[ZBBM]

You mean like when Simmonds comes back?

I like Simmonds, but I would have trouble characterizing him as a power forward at this point. PP specialist for sure.

I guess we haven't really seen enough of him to be sure, but I disagree.  Don't have his stats at hand but he looked effective 5 on 5, at least some of the time.  Granted, he's past his prime.  But I just don't get the Nylander for Wilson trade talk.

 

[ZBBM]

I am not down on Mikheyev, but we also might have to face the possibility that the guy simply can't score.

 

[L K]

Mikheyev's shot certainly doesn't make me think goalscorer.  His speed gets him great chances but his production is really spotty.

Last year he started the year with 4 goals in 12 games.  He finished his pre-bubble season with 4 goals in 6 games.  That was sandwiched around a 21 game goalless drought.  Now this year he has 2 goals in 20 games. 

This is now two pretty significant stretches where he struggles to score.  It's no surprising because his shot is just really poor and even when he gets on a breakaway he doesn't really have a move other than shoot it at the goalie.

 

[ZBBM]

Mikheyev's shot certainly doesn't make me think goalscorer.  His speed gets him great chances but his production is really spotty.

Last year he started the year with 4 goals in 12 games.  He finished his pre-bubble season with 4 goals in 6 games.  That was sandwiched around a 21 game goalless drought.  Now this year he has 2 goals in 20 games. 

This is now two pretty significant stretches where he struggles to score.  It's no surprising because his shot is just really poor and even when he gets on a breakaway he doesn't really have a move other than shoot it at the goalie.

So he's a lesser Kappi.

Or maybe a speedy ... who was that good defensive forward on Anaheim, Sami Vatanen?  That would be just fine.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1364270571413008385
https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1364044283683168257

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Mikheyev's shot certainly doesn't make me think goalscorer.  His speed gets him great chances but his production is really spotty.

Last year he started the year with 4 goals in 12 games.  He finished his pre-bubble season with 4 goals in 6 games.  That was sandwiched around a 21 game goalless drought.  Now this year he has 2 goals in 20 games. 

This is now two pretty significant stretches where he struggles to score.  It's no surprising because his shot is just really poor and even when he gets on a breakaway he doesn't really have a move other than shoot it at the goalie.

So he's a lesser Kappi.

Or maybe a speedy ... who was that good defensive forward on Anaheim, Sami Vatanen?  That would be just fine.

Samuel Pahlsson?

 

[Guilt Trip]

Mikheyev's shot certainly doesn't make me think goalscorer.  His speed gets him great chances but his production is really spotty.

Are you disapponted with Hyman's production? I ask because there's really no difference between the two.
Hyman has 2 ESGs, including 1 empty net and 2 PPGs. He has 7 total ES points.
Mikheyev has 2 ESGs, doesn't play the power play and has 5 ES points. Mikheyev also didn't play with Marner and Matthews where 8 of Hyman's 10 points were from. The other 2 were in the first 2 games on the PP.
Mikheyev is our best defensive forward, PKer and he's generating chances almost every penalty kill. I don't know how long it takes to get over a cut tendon but if he keeps his strong defensive play up, it's a win for the Leafs. Hopefully he can start to bury these chances.

 

[ZBBM]

Pahlsson, that's it!  Thanks.

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[bustaheims]

Are you disapponted with Hyman's production? I ask because there's really no difference between the two.
Hyman has 2 ESGs, including 1 empty net and 2 PPGs. He has 7 total ES points.
Mikheyev has 2 ESGs, doesn't play the power play and has 5 ES points. Mikheyev also didn't play with Marner and Matthews where 8 of Hyman's 10 points were from. The other 2 were in the first 2 games on the PP.
Mikheyev is our best defensive forward, PKer and he's generating chances almost every penalty kill. I don't know how long it takes to get over a cut tendon but if he keeps his strong defensive play up, it's a win for the Leafs. Hopefully he can start to bury these chances.

Considering he's coming off back-to-back 20+ goal seasons, I'd say yes, Hyman's current level of production is a bit disappointing. He's still on pace to roughly double Mikheyev's totals, though. That's partly due to his linemates, PP time, etc., but at the same time, his previous production earned him much of that time, as well as more benefit of the doubt than Mikheyev.

That all being said, if Mikheyev ends up as a quality 4th line forechecker and PKer, I think that's enough to keep him in the league for a little while.