Florida trades Bolland and Crouse to Arizona

[dappleganger]

The other options seem difficult as well. It's hard to imagine the NHL being particularly on board with an arena being part of a casino development.

I agree though that Glendale is probably too poisoned to continue.

Pittsburgh's new arena, the Consol Energy Center was built as a co-venture between the Penguins and Majestic Star Casino (and subsequently casino magnate Neil G. Bluhm) so it's not unprecedented that an NHL club would have an association with a casino development.

 

[Bates]

I get where you are coming from but I think that all changed when Vegas was awarded a team.  As I said I am starting to really question the future in AZ from a home standpoint.  LeBlanc promised an announcement before the Draft and there's been nada ever since.  He certainly isn't the type to just hold in good news.

So what would be different with team next door to a casino in Scottsdale vs next door to a casino in Vegas?  I think that argument holds no water.

Well, practically I'd guess there'd be no difference but then practically I don't think legal sports gambling in New Jersey would affect the NHL either. The issue I think would be whether or not there's an actual business relationship between the team and the casino, something that just being neighbours doesn't qualify as.

To be clear, I'm not making an argument here in terms of what I think is morally right. I'm just saying what I think the NHL's policy will be.

 

[Kin]

Pittsburgh's new arena, the Consol Energy Center was built as a co-venture between the Penguins and Majestic Star Casino (and subsequently casino magnate Neil G. Bluhm) so it's not unprecedented that an NHL club would have an association with a casino development.

The way I understand what happened in Pittsburgh is that the Casinos in question agreed to put up a bunch of the funding for the arena in return for gaming licenses but that the casino companies themselves never had an ownership stake in either the team or the arena. If that's the sort of thing being discussed then, yeah, the NHL might go for it but what I took from Bates was more of an official landlord-tenant situation.

 

[Bates]

I don't really have any knowledge on the plans, it has been a rumored landing spot for Team.  I just guessed landlord tenant but who knows what's on the Burner?

Pittsburgh's new arena, the Consol Energy Center was built as a co-venture between the Penguins and Majestic Star Casino (and subsequently casino magnate Neil G. Bluhm) so it's not unprecedented that an NHL club would have an association with a casino development.

The way I understand what happened in Pittsburgh is that the Casinos in question agreed to put up a bunch of the funding for the arena in return for gaming licenses but that the casino companies themselves never had an ownership stake in either the team or the arena. If that's the sort of thing being discussed then, yeah, the NHL might go for it but what I took from Bates was more of an official landlord-tenant situation.

 

[Zee]

All I remember is Bolland played a legendary 23 games with the Leafs.

 

[Highlander]

Question, if Dave Bolland is the proverbial lame horse why did Panthers need to give up such a good prospect to AZ, who will take on Bollands insane salary and just put him on the LTIR (like we did with Horton).
Why didn't the Panthers do so and keep Lawson Crouse?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

All I remember is Bolland played a legendary 23 games with the Leafs.

Never forget:

steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve  13 Dec 2013
In games David Bolland played, the Leafs have a 10-5 W-L record. Since Bolland went down, Leafs are 6-9-3 (with only 2 wins in regulation.

 

[herman]

Question, if Dave Bolland is the proverbial lame horse why did Panthers need to give up such a good prospect to AZ, who will take on Bollands insane salary and just put him on the LTIR (like we did with Horton).
Why didn't the Panthers do so and keep Lawson Crouse?

Market price for a salary dump is kind of a bit high right now.
Recently:
Datsyuk (7M) for a mid-1st
Bickell (4M) + Teravainen for 2016-2nd + 2017-3rd

Usually a result of one team hard up against the cap, and the other team patiently waiting them into desperate submission. That Chi-Car deal is a huge overpayment in my opinion.

Bolland is pretty heavy in term too, so you have to sweeten the pot significantly to get any takers. I think Florida got off a bit easy though, only letting go of Crouse.

 

[Tigger]

...and the Coyotes name Dawn Braid as a full time skating coach, cool.

 

[herman]

...and the Coyotes name Dawn Braid as a full time skating coach, cool.

First female full-time coach! I'm a bit surprised she took a full-time gig instead of consulting like she was before, which would give her access to a broader portfolio.

I think I mentioned her before in other threads, but she was the one that fixed John Tavares' skating. We've consulted her before, as she is close friends with Barb Underhill.

 

[Bates]

I think they have to pay for the risk that he might try to play again at some point in his contract!!!

Question, if Dave Bolland is the proverbial lame horse why did Panthers need to give up such a good prospect to AZ, who will take on Bollands insane salary and just put him on the LTIR (like we did with Horton).
Why didn't the Panthers do so and keep Lawson Crouse?

 

[Coco-puffs]

Market price for a salary dump is kind of a bit high right now.
Recently:
Datsyuk (7M) for a mid-1st
Bickell (4M) + Teravainen for 2016-2nd + 2017-3rd

Usually a result of one team hard up against the cap, and the other team patiently waiting them into desperate submission. That Chi-Car deal is a huge overpayment in my opinion.

Bolland is pretty heavy in term too, so you have to sweeten the pot significantly to get any takers. I think Florida got off a bit easy though, only letting go of Crouse.

I'm just being nitpicky here, but the Datsyuk trade is not a good example.  First of all, the trade was Datsyuk + Pick #16 for Pick #20, Pick #53, and Joe Vitale.  It really didn't cost Detroit much as they still got a (slightly later) mid-round pick AND a 2nd round pick back.    Take Datsyuk and Vitale out of the equation (cap dumps in both cases) and it looks like a regular trade up in the draft transaction.

And in comparison to Bickell and Bolland, Datsyuk counts against the cap but doesn't need to be paid ANYTHING since he's in breach of contract.  It only costs some cap space, which Arizona is swimming in.  WIth Bickell and BOlland, the team taking on the contract still has to pay the player (unless injured, at which point insurance will cover a good portion of the salary).  Bolland may not play again this season, but he may recover enough to no longer be on LTIR for the following to seasons... at which point Arizona may need to buy him out or bury him in the minors.

 

[Bates]

You are leaving out the real money for Vitale.  To a poor team like AZ that is rather important.  And by already reaching the Cap floor with Datsyuk it helps their bargaining position for a deal like the Crouse one.  And that 16th pick was Chychrun, which might have given AZ reason to add to deal. 

Market price for a salary dump is kind of a bit high right now.
Recently:
Datsyuk (7M) for a mid-1st
Bickell (4M) + Teravainen for 2016-2nd + 2017-3rd

Usually a result of one team hard up against the cap, and the other team patiently waiting them into desperate submission. That Chi-Car deal is a huge overpayment in my opinion.

Bolland is pretty heavy in term too, so you have to sweeten the pot significantly to get any takers. I think Florida got off a bit easy though, only letting go of Crouse.

I'm just being nitpicky here, but the Datsyuk trade is not a good example.  First of all, the trade was Datsyuk + Pick #16 for Pick #20, Pick #53, and Joe Vitale.  It really didn't cost Detroit much as they still got a (slightly later) mid-round pick AND a 2nd round pick back.    Take Datsyuk and Vitale out of the equation (cap dumps in both cases) and it looks like a regular trade up in the draft transaction.

And in comparison to Bickell and Bolland, Datsyuk counts against the cap but doesn't need to be paid ANYTHING since he's in breach of contract.  It only costs some cap space, which Arizona is swimming in.  WIth Bickell and BOlland, the team taking on the contract still has to pay the player (unless injured, at which point insurance will cover a good portion of the salary).  Bolland may not play again this season, but he may recover enough to no longer be on LTIR for the following to seasons... at which point Arizona may need to buy him out or bury him in the minors.

 

[herman]

I'm just being nitpicky here, but the Datsyuk trade is not a good example.  First of all, the trade was Datsyuk + Pick #16 for Pick #20, Pick #53, and Joe Vitale.  It really didn't cost Detroit much as they still got a (slightly later) mid-round pick AND a 2nd round pick back.    Take Datsyuk and Vitale out of the equation (cap dumps in both cases) and it looks like a regular trade up in the draft transaction.

Haha, thanks for the clarification. I had to step into a meeting so I didn't get a chance to finish off the research and just posted it to check in on later.

 

[Tigger]

...and the Coyotes name Dawn Braid as a full time skating coach, cool.

First female full-time coach! I'm a bit surprised she took a full-time gig instead of consulting like she was before, which would give her access to a broader portfolio.

I think I mentioned her before in other threads, but she was the one that fixed John Tavares' skating. We've consulted her before, as she is close friends with Barb Underhill.

She may have looked at the position and becoming the first full time female coach in the NHL as just that kind of portfolio door opener, hard to say. Also nice to see Mike Van Ryn get a job with the Coyotes as development coach.

 

[Highlander]

I still don't understand, why couldnt Bolland just go on the LTIR in Florida and then they could have kept Crouse?
Or does someone need to be traded to go on the LTIR to save cap space.  Hold it we put Robidas on LTIR after he played for us. I don't understand?

 

[dappleganger]

I still don't understand, why couldnt Bolland just go on the LTIR in Florida and then they could have kept Crouse?
Or does someone need to be traded to go on the LTIR to save cap space.  Hold it we put Robidas on LTIR after he played for us. I don't understand?

I think the problem is that Bolland is going to come back at some point. Phoenix can handle the cap hit. Florida didn't want to. I don't think this is a situation where Bolland never plays again. He'll probably get hurt again, becoming a burden. I think that's why Florida made the trade.

 

[Highlander]

Ok thanks for explaining that, makes sense.