Game 12 - Leafs @ Devils - Wednesday Nov 2nd, 2011 - 19:30 EST - 5-3 Win

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Volchenkov head hunting Lombardi?  Dick head.

 

[Bonsixx]

As nice a dish as that was, and maybe it froze Marty a little, I think the Brodeur of old would have recovered in time to deny Grabovski.  No question in my mind that he's "lost a step" (or whatever the equivalent for a goalie is).

Well he's only played a game and a half so far this season. Give him time.

 

[Stebro]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

To be honest I don't care , Wilson is the head coach, so I would still consider it to be his responsibility indirectly.

Ok but do you really think a system break down gave way to that goal?

I can just draw the conclusion that we allow too many goals on the PK. And I doubt that the reason why is because the players never know what to do, or that they're just unfocused. However I do know that it's quite common that teams allow or score goals just before a penalty ends or just after another goal etc. But our pk is awful. I mean what are we at? 75%? The best team in the Swedish league after 18 games have a penalty killing of 95,08%. I'm not saying that you can compare that to the NHL, but it shows that you can have great success with special teams in great leagues. What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

 

[maplesyrup]

Gustavsson... Now just 1 point behind Leino. 

 

[ZBBM]

As nice a dish as that was, and maybe it froze Marty a little, I think the Brodeur of old would have recovered in time to deny Grabovski.  No question in my mind that he's "lost a step" (or whatever the equivalent for a goalie is).

Well he's only played a game and a half so far this season. Give him time.

I was backlooking to the last couple of years, but your point is well taken.

 

[Stebro]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

I don't think there's any real assigned duties, but the belief is that Cronin is taking control of the PK while Gordon is handling the PP.

I mean, it really is unfathomable that you can change the coaches and a majority of the players and see no positive change whatsoever.

I'm at a loss as to what to say about it.

It would be one thing if it only was this season, but stinking it up in the pk season after season is just plain weird. It tells me that someone isn't taking responsibility or that they're not working on it properly, or simply that they have the wrong type of system. Because honestly if you practice PK you could even get a really crappy team to have decent stats.

 

[Tigger]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

To be honest I don't care , Wilson is the head coach, so I would still consider it to be his responsibility indirectly.

Ok but do you really think a system break down gave way to that goal?

I can just draw the conclusion that we allow too many goals on the PK. And I doubt that the reason why is because the players never know what to do, or that they're just unfocused. However I do know that it's quite common that teams allow or score goals just before a penalty ends or just after another goal etc. But our pk is awful. I mean what are we at? 75%? The best team in the Swedish league after 18 games have a penalty killing of 95,08%. I'm not saying that you can compare that to the NHL, but it shows that you can have great success with special teams in great leagues. What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That's fine and all but it doesn't really say much about that goal to me, fwiw.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That would be top 5 in the league the last few seasons.  A tad unrealistic for what this group has shown.

 

[Stebro]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

To be honest I don't care , Wilson is the head coach, so I would still consider it to be his responsibility indirectly.

Ok but do you really think a system break down gave way to that goal?

I can just draw the conclusion that we allow too many goals on the PK. And I doubt that the reason why is because the players never know what to do, or that they're just unfocused. However I do know that it's quite common that teams allow or score goals just before a penalty ends or just after another goal etc. But our pk is awful. I mean what are we at? 75%? The best team in the Swedish league after 18 games have a penalty killing of 95,08%. I'm not saying that you can compare that to the NHL, but it shows that you can have great success with special teams in great leagues. What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That's fine and all but it doesn't really say much about that goal to me, fwiw.

But it's not the first time. I mean I seriously don't think that the players just are stupid and constantly relaxe when the penalty killing is about to end, and even if that were the case then the coaching staff must act. And the pk has been stinking year after year, without much of a change, someone must be responsible.

 

[Bullfrog]

Gustavsson is now outscoring Reimer!

 

[Tigger]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

I don't think there's any real assigned duties, but the belief is that Cronin is taking control of the PK while Gordon is handling the PP.

I mean, it really is unfathomable that you can change the coaches and a majority of the players and see no positive change whatsoever.

I'm at a loss as to what to say about it.

It would be one thing if it only was this season, but stinking it up in the pk season after season is just plain weird. It tells me that someone isn't taking responsibility or that they're not working on it properly, or simply that they have the wrong type of system. Because honestly if you practice PK you could even get a really crappy team to have decent stats.

One would think that the Stanley cup champs with Thomas and Chara would be better at it too but that isn't, or wasn't the case, it's not as simple as 'blame Wilson', it never was. It's a long season and the Leafs have a few new faces that might need some time to get it together, even to just create an adequate pk.

 

[Stebro]

What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That would be top 5 in the league the last few seasons.  A tad unrealistic for what this group has shown.

Well you must aim for high standards. What's worrying me is just the fact that we haven't seen any real improvement from year to year. And I still say that any team can have a great pk if you just work at it. There have been plenty of teams that are quite average, but have one scoring line, and great special teams who actually win titles. We can't go into a playoff with a penalty killing like this. The coaching staff must do something.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And the pk has been stinking year after year, without much of a change, someone must be responsible.

Without much change as in it's been bad year after year, or without much change as in the personnel hasn't changed much?

 

[Tigger]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

To be honest I don't care , Wilson is the head coach, so I would still consider it to be his responsibility indirectly.

Ok but do you really think a system break down gave way to that goal?

I can just draw the conclusion that we allow too many goals on the PK. And I doubt that the reason why is because the players never know what to do, or that they're just unfocused. However I do know that it's quite common that teams allow or score goals just before a penalty ends or just after another goal etc. But our pk is awful. I mean what are we at? 75%? The best team in the Swedish league after 18 games have a penalty killing of 95,08%. I'm not saying that you can compare that to the NHL, but it shows that you can have great success with special teams in great leagues. What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That's fine and all but it doesn't really say much about that goal to me, fwiw.

But it's not the first time. I mean I seriously don't think that the players just are stupid and constantly relaxe when the penalty killing is about to end, and even if that were the case then the coaching staff must act. And the pk has been stinking year after year, without much of a change, someone must be responsible.

Again, how does that say it's Wilsons fault? The pk group has also been changing quite a bit in the last few years, just because Wilson is at the helm doesn't mean players instantly understand how to be a top 5 pk unit, it's hard to do.

 

[Stebro]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

I don't think there's any real assigned duties, but the belief is that Cronin is taking control of the PK while Gordon is handling the PP.

I mean, it really is unfathomable that you can change the coaches and a majority of the players and see no positive change whatsoever.

I'm at a loss as to what to say about it.

It would be one thing if it only was this season, but stinking it up in the pk season after season is just plain weird. It tells me that someone isn't taking responsibility or that they're not working on it properly, or simply that they have the wrong type of system. Because honestly if you practice PK you could even get a really crappy team to have decent stats.

One would think that the Stanley cup champs with Thomas and Chara would be better at it too but that isn't, or wasn't the case, it's not as simple as 'blame Wilson', it never was. It's a long season and the Leafs have a few new faces that might need some time to get it together, even to just create an adequate pk.

That still doesn't explain how our pk can suck year after year. What does it say about the coaching staff if things doesn't improve? It's one thing if you constantly lose on even strength due to poor depth, or if you can't score on the pp because you don't have the right players. But basically every team can be taught to play decent pk even with bad players. So I still turn my focuse to Wilson and the coaching staff. And if we the players constantly leave others in front of the net, or are unfocused just before the penalties end, then the coaching staff must do something.

 

[Stebro]

And the pk has been stinking year after year, without much of a change, someone must be responsible.

Without much change as in it's been bad year after year, or without much change as in the personnel hasn't changed much?

The first, I mean we've heard how lousy stats we've had on the pk, and have been among the worst teams for like 5 years in a row or something. Something tells me it's just not a matter of the players doing the wrong things.

 

[bustaheims]

Again, how does that say it's Wilsons fault? The pk group has also been changing quite a bit in the last few years, just because Wilson is at the helm doesn't mean players instantly understand how to be a top 5 pk unit, it's hard to do.

And, while it doesn't apply to that goal specifically, it's not like the Leafs have been getting great goaltending during Wilson's tenure, and your goaltender has to be your best penalty killer. Reimer was great for the back half of last season, and the PK numbers improved noticeably over that stretch. With some more consistent goaltending performances, I'm sure we'll see the Leafs' PK percentage rise. It probably won't be the team's strength, but, it shoudl become a less obvious weakness.

Also, let's not forget that around this point last season, the PK was working at around a 60% clip, so . . .

 

[Bender]

Again, how does that say it's Wilsons fault? The pk group has also been changing quite a bit in the last few years, just because Wilson is at the helm doesn't mean players instantly understand how to be a top 5 pk unit, it's hard to do.

And, while it doesn't apply to that goal specifically, it's not like the Leafs have been getting great goaltending during Wilson's tenure, and your goaltender has to be your best penalty killer. Reimer was great for the back half of last season, and the PK numbers improved noticeably over that stretch. With some more consistent goaltending performances, I'm sure we'll see the Leafs' PK percentage rise. It probably won't be the team's strength, but, it shoudl become a less obvious weakness.

Also, let's not forget that around this point last season, the PK was working at around a 60% clip, so . . .

At the same time I can hardly fault Gus on that Zubrus goal.

 

[Tigger]

What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That would be top 5 in the league the last few seasons.  A tad unrealistic for what this group has shown.

Well you must aim for high standards. What's worrying me is just the fact that we haven't seen any real improvement from year to year. And I still say that any team can have a great pk if you just work at it. There have been plenty of teams that are quite average, but have one scoring line, and great special teams who actually win titles. We can't go into a playoff with a penalty killing like this. The coaching staff must do something.

The playoffs are a ways off, the next game is what matters however the 'high standards' you're referring to here are your own, the top 5 pk units last year hovered around that mark. Saying 'if you just work at it' is to claim that most teams don't, which is completely false.

 

[Stebro]

great improvement on the pk Wilson, im impressed

I thought I read that Cronin had taken over the PK work (unless it was the PP).

To be honest I don't care , Wilson is the head coach, so I would still consider it to be his responsibility indirectly.

Ok but do you really think a system break down gave way to that goal?

I can just draw the conclusion that we allow too many goals on the PK. And I doubt that the reason why is because the players never know what to do, or that they're just unfocused. However I do know that it's quite common that teams allow or score goals just before a penalty ends or just after another goal etc. But our pk is awful. I mean what are we at? 75%? The best team in the Swedish league after 18 games have a penalty killing of 95,08%. I'm not saying that you can compare that to the NHL, but it shows that you can have great success with special teams in great leagues. What do I expect from the leafs? 85% or so.

That's fine and all but it doesn't really say much about that goal to me, fwiw.

But it's not the first time. I mean I seriously don't think that the players just are stupid and constantly relaxe when the penalty killing is about to end, and even if that were the case then the coaching staff must act. And the pk has been stinking year after year, without much of a change, someone must be responsible.

Again, how does that say it's Wilsons fault? The pk group has also been changing quite a bit in the last few years, just because Wilson is at the helm doesn't mean players instantly understand how to be a top 5 pk unit, it's hard to do.

Well the ironic part is that they've been one of the worst under Wilson's helmet for 5 years in a row or something. We can't enter a playoffs like this. And if things doesn't improve after 5 years that does certainly seem quite weird. Based on what I've watched I don't think that they're moving enough. They let the opponents get their time.