Game 36: TOR @ FLA

[Stickytape]

Shoddy goaltending did this one in as much as the bad PK.  Plus Florida got the bounces, and for the most part the leafs didn't.

The offense actually looked okay from my seat, though.  As usual these days, they were the best defense.  Nice to see Grabo get on the board there.

EDIT:  I still blame Grapes for the Leafs being 30th on the PK.  He said they're 30th, so they're 30th.

 

[riff raff]

We were representing at the Bank Atlantic Center tonight. The crowd seemed about 50/50 Leaf fans. Did that come across on the broadcast?

Also, Reimer looked atrocious in the warm up. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything vis-a-vis the game, but it seemed to carry over on that first shot he faced.

 

[TML fan]

Bad goaltending and mental lapses sums up this one pretty nicely.

 

[hockeyfan1]

How do you blame Gus on that lamajama?  It's deflected by
Gunnarsson pretty significantly and it's Schenn continuing his
mediocre play on the season.
 
Good thing we gave Wilson that extension though.

What does Schenn deciding to do something stupid, that any
junior league player is taught to do (dump it in, don't turnover at
blue line) have to do with Wilson getting an extension?

It's prematurely rewarding a coach without getting results. 
Defensive let-downs have been a constant theme with the team,
and they continue.  Two separate thoughts in one post though.

Although, I mean, it's not too hard to draw a line. Schenn
committed a pretty basic, rudimentary mental error. I think that's
the sort of thing that can pretty easily be attributed to coaching.

There are two ways to look at the situation whereby a player (in this case Schenn) keeps committing defensive errors/displays a sense of mediocrity regarding his position: 
1) Either the coach can be blamed for failing to instill or teach the player better for a more positive outcome, or, 2) The player is simply not good enough regardless of what/how he's taught.

Take your pick.

 

[Stickytape]

We were representing at the Bank Atlantic Center tonight. The crowd seemed about 50/50 Leaf fans. Did that come across on the broadcast?

It almost sounded/looked like the ACC on the broadcast.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Bad goaltending and mental lapses sums up this one pretty nicely.

The Panthers certainly didn't take the
Leafs lightly.

Quote
"That's what we were looking for", Panthers coach Kevin Dineen said.  "They're a really good hockey team.  We're so respectful of the talent and that's not just blabber after the game.  We really were worried about the speed and the skill that they have and sometimes the best defence is a good offence".

 

[Jalili]

How do you blame Gus on that lamajama?  It's deflected by
Gunnarsson pretty significantly and it's Schenn continuing his
mediocre play on the season.
 
Good thing we gave Wilson that extension though.

What does Schenn deciding to do something stupid, that any
junior league player is taught to do (dump it in, don't turnover at
blue line) have to do with Wilson getting an extension?

It's prematurely rewarding a coach without getting results. 
Defensive let-downs have been a constant theme with the team,
and they continue.  Two separate thoughts in one post though.

Although, I mean, it's not too hard to draw a line. Schenn
committed a pretty basic, rudimentary mental error. I think that's
the sort of thing that can pretty easily be attributed to coaching.

There are two ways to look at the situation whereby a player (in this case Schenn) keeps committing defensive errors/displays a sense of mediocrity regarding his position: 
1) Either the coach can be blamed for failing to instill or teach the player better for a more positive outcome, or, 2) The player is simply not good enough regardless of what/how he's taught.

Take your pick.

The PK in the last four seasons: 30th/28th/30th/30th overall

In that time the entire roster has been overhauled, as well as a good chunk of the coaching staff minus Wilson. So to me, it's  a question of whether you blame Wilson directly, or the guy who is rewarding him for these unacceptable results.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The PK in the last four seasons: 30th/28th/30th/30th overall

In that time the entire roster has been overhauled, as well as a good chunk of the coaching staff minus Wilson. So to me, it's  a question of whether you blame Wilson directly, or the guy who is rewarding him for these unacceptable results.

You can kind of draw a straight line from the last time the Leafs had great goaltending, to the last time the PK was decent (and even then it wasn't always great).

02-03: 3rd (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.26 GAA, .922 SV%
03-04: 19th (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.13 GAA, .918 SV%

05-06: 24th (Quinn) - Belfour: 3.29 GAA, .892 SV%
06-07: 27th (Maurice) - Raycroft: 2.99 GAA .894 SV% (37 wins)
07-08: 29th (Maurice) - Toskala: 2.74 GAA, .904 SV%


Between 3 coaches, a lockout, a different style of NHL - 02-03 is the only season in the last decade a Toronto team has had a PK finish above 16th best in the league (01-02 was 16th).

 

[Stronger Than All]

We were representing at the Bank Atlantic Center tonight. The crowd seemed about 50/50 Leaf fans. Did that come across on the broadcast?

Also, Reimer looked atrocious in the warm up. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything vis-a-vis the game, but it seemed to carry over on that first shot he faced.

It seemed like 70/30 in favour of Leaf fans on tv. It was ridiculous.  Too bad you all had to leave dissapointed.

 

[riff raff]

We were representing at the Bank Atlantic Center tonight. The crowd seemed about 50/50 Leaf fans. Did that come across on the broadcast?

Also, Reimer looked atrocious in the warm up. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything vis-a-vis the game, but it seemed to carry over on that first shot he faced.

It seemed like 70/30 in favour of Leaf fans on tv. It was ridiculous.  Too bad you all had to leave dissapointed.

As the crowd left, a large group of Panther fans gathered at the main exit and chanted "Let's go Panthers" for about half an hour - taking back their arena, as it were. They were still at it as we left. People were saying they had never seen anything like it.

 

[Tigger]

How do you blame Gus on that lamajama?  It's deflected by Gunnarsson pretty significantly and it's Schenn continuing his mediocre play on the season. 

Good thing we gave Wilson that extension though.

What does Schenn deciding to do something stupid, that any junior league player is taught to do (dump it in, don't turnover at blue line) have to do with Wilson getting an extension?

It's prematurely rewarding a coach without getting results.  Defensive let-downs have been a constant theme with the team, and they continue.  Two separate thoughts in one post though.

Although, I mean, it's not too hard to draw a line. Schenn committed a pretty basic, rudimentary mental error. I think that's the sort of thing that can pretty easily be attributed to coaching.

Well Ron certainly didn't know what he was doing, said as much after the game. The players have been told/practice certain themes, engage puck battles, don't stick handle in traffic and get the puck north. Seems to me Schenn failed the teachers, not the other way around.

 

[Tigger]

The PK in the last four seasons: 30th/28th/30th/30th overall

In that time the entire roster has been overhauled, as well as a good chunk of the coaching staff minus Wilson. So to me, it's  a question of whether you blame Wilson directly, or the guy who is rewarding him for these unacceptable results.

You can kind of draw a straight line from the last time the Leafs had great goaltending, to the last time the PK was decent (and even then it wasn't always great).

02-03: 3rd (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.26 GAA, .922 SV%
03-04: 19th (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.13 GAA, .918 SV%

05-06: 24th (Quinn) - Belfour: 3.29 GAA, .892 SV%
06-07: 27th (Maurice) - Raycroft: 2.99 GAA .894 SV% (37 wins)
07-08: 29th (Maurice) - Toskala: 2.74 GAA, .904 SV%


Between 3 coaches, a lockout, a different style of NHL - 02-03 is the only season in the last decade a Toronto team has had a PK finish above 16th best in the league (01-02 was 16th).

Yeah, I mentioned in another thread that the 02/03 team also featured Mogilny and Sundin as the top pk'ing forwards in terms of toi as well as Kaberle and Svehla on the back end. Lots of dangerous skill ( Sundin and Mogilny with 5 shpts each, good for 11th and 13th in that stat ) as well as Belfour on top of his game.

 

[Jalili]

The PK in the last four seasons: 30th/28th/30th/30th overall

In that time the entire roster has been overhauled, as well as a good chunk of the coaching staff minus Wilson. So to me, it's  a question of whether you blame Wilson directly, or the guy who is rewarding him for these unacceptable results.

You can kind of draw a straight line from the last time the Leafs had great goaltending, to the last time the PK was decent (and even then it wasn't always great).

02-03: 3rd (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.26 GAA, .922 SV%
03-04: 19th (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.13 GAA, .918 SV%

05-06: 24th (Quinn) - Belfour: 3.29 GAA, .892 SV%
06-07: 27th (Maurice) - Raycroft: 2.99 GAA .894 SV% (37 wins)
07-08: 29th (Maurice) - Toskala: 2.74 GAA, .904 SV%


Between 3 coaches, a lockout, a different style of NHL - 02-03 is the only season in the last decade a Toronto team has had a PK finish above 16th best in the league (01-02 was 16th).

True, there is a strong correlation between great goaltending and PK success, but it's not mandatory to have a good goaltender in order to kill penalties. Looking at the PK stats of teams around the league, you have teams with very good PK results - take NJ for example - who don't exactly have a star duo in net. You also have teams like TB and NYI, with tandems that look pretty lousy, that still manage to maintain a middle-of-the-road PK%.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, that a lack of good goaltending is a valid reason for why they're sitting where they are, but at the same time, to me the scope of this problem goes way beyond goaltending.

 

[Tigger]

to me the scope of this problem goes way beyond goaltending.

What do you think that is?

 

[Tigger]

I see from the box score that Boyce had another fruitful stint filling in so admirably for Dupuis on the pk...

 

[Bender]

I see from the box score that Boyce had another fruitful stint filling in so admirably for Dupuis on the pk...

DUPUIS IS THE REASON THE LEAFS SUCK

 

[Zee]

I see from the box score that Boyce had another fruitful stint filling in so admirably for Dupuis on the pk...

What box score did you consult?  Boyce's total time on the PK last night was 0:00 minutes.

 

[bustaheims]

I see from the box score that Boyce had another fruitful stint filling in so admirably for Dupuis on the pk...

What box score did you consult?  Boyce's total time on the PK last night was 0:00 minutes.

And, that would be his point.

 

[Zee]

I see from the box score that Boyce had another fruitful stint filling in so admirably for Dupuis on the pk...

What box score did you consult?  Boyce's total time on the PK last night was 0:00 minutes.

And, that would be his point.

I thought he was ripping Boyce cause the Leafs gave up 2 PP goals but then I see Boyce didn't even play on the PK.  So who do we blame for not even trying to play him on the PK?

 

[Tigger]

So who do we blame for not even trying to play him on the PK?

Lance Hornby and Mike in Buf...

All kidding aside Boyce hasn't really been used in that role in the nhl so I'm not concerned that he wasn't used, just continuing to rip on media who suggested he was capable of filling in for Dupuis on the pk.