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Game 9 - Leafs @ Rangers - Thursday Oct 27th 2011 - 19:00 EST - 4-2 Win

BlueWhiteBlood said:
cw said:
I still feel that it was more than coincidence that Schenn's best hockey came when he was partnered with Kaberle. Like Komisarek, Schenn should stick to a pretty simple game because he isn't that skilled offensively. The difference to me is that Kaberle helped Schenn to keep it simple. Kaberle would position himself so it was easy for Schenn to dump him the puck and then Kaberle would kind of do the rest and was more reliable to take the right man/do the right thing on a rush. And Kaberle would try to mind the store when Luke went off to the boards for puck battles. On offense, Schenn would cover for Kaberle defensively.

The same potential exists with Gardiner as a partner except Gardiner is still a little wild and learning. He isn't nearly as easy to play with right now even though he's got lots of talent. He's not always in a position to easily dump the puck off to. He isn't as reliable to take the right man on a rush. And he can get himself into some trouble that he often skates himself out of but it has to give his partner some jitters sometimes.

But I found Schenn just as effective last season when he was on his game, after Kaberle had been traded. Sure, I'll give you the fact that Kaberle made things easy for anyone that he played with, however I still think Schenn is a very solid defender when he plays an aggressive game and hits opponents hard on the boards in the defensive zone.

I even found Schenn a very reliable first pass defenseman, he is able to be patient and find the open forward when he is on his game, not needing to rely on another puck mover to get him out of trouble. It's his game right now, between the ears, that is his problem. Whether that is his confidence level or what have you, something isn't as easy and I think he needs to buy himself a bit more time, by hitting hard and taking the player off the puck with authority, rather than trying to use his stick to poke the puck off the player alone. He doesn't have as much time to get the puck out as he does when he hits them. I'm not saying that using an active stick or using your partner are bad things, they should be encouraged, but I find Schenn much more effective, when he's punishing on the boards is all.

Schenn prior to Kaberle trade last season +3
Schenn after Kaberle trade last season -10 (which I think is a team worst over that time and happened when the rest of the team was playing pretty well).

After Kaberle left:
Phaneuf        +6
Aulie            +4
Lebda          +3
Komisarek    +1
Lashoff          +1
Gunnarsson    0
Schenn        -10

Now I wouldn't be the first one to point out that +/- is not the bastion of precision but over 24 games, those numbers are rather striking for a coach who appears to put more stock in them than I.

Beyond the stats, he simply didn't look as good and seemed more prone to errors. I think his game suffered without Tomas - significantly.
 
cw said:
Beyond the stats, he simply didn't look as good and seemed more prone to errors. I think his game suffered without Tomas - significantly.

It is rather striking. I'm certainly not saying that he didn't rely on Kaberle, because what you have said is true, but at the same time, I do notice him playing better when he is aggressive, that's just an observation, I'm not quite sure how to measure that.

I'm not a stats guy, so for me to break them out and start looking at quality of comp and all that stuff isn't going to happen. I just hope to see him being more aggressive and hitting, since he's a defensive defenseman, that's what he should be doing. Right now, Komisarek is playing the way I want Schenn to play as well and if we can get them both playing that strong physical game, the Leafs will be better off I think. Phaneuf, Gardiner and Liles can take care of the puck moving and points.
 
cw said:
Beyond the stats, he simply didn't look as good and seemed more prone to errors. I think his game suffered without Tomas - significantly.

That's the same observation I made. I didn't think it was as extreme as those +/- numbers suggest though.
 
BlueWhiteBlood said:
cw said:
Beyond the stats, he simply didn't look as good and seemed more prone to errors. I think his game suffered without Tomas - significantly.

It is rather striking. I'm certainly not saying that he didn't rely on Kaberle, because what you have said is true, but at the same time, I do notice him playing better when he is aggressive, that's just an observation, I'm not quite sure how to measure that.

I'm not a stats guy, so for me to break them out and start looking at quality of comp and all that stuff isn't going to happen. I just hope to see him being more aggressive and hitting, since he's a defensive defenseman, that's what he should be doing. Right now, Komisarek is playing the way I want Schenn to play as well and if we can get them both playing that strong physical game, the Leafs will be better off I think. Phaneuf, Gardiner and Liles can take care of the puck moving and points.

I agree. For both those guys:
1. Play the man (sometimes burying him into the boards or whatever)/clear the crease
2. Win the puck battle
3. Dump the puck off to the puck moving dman, a forward or chip it out
4. Cover their offensive dman when on offence.

That is all.

That's a heck of a lot easier to say than it is to do so I don't mean that in a way that belittles them because that sure wasn't Kaberle's forte for example.

Schenn ventured behind the opposition's net last night. I don't see the point unless they're down and seconds are ticking away near the end of the game. He's not quick enough to reliably recover though Kessel had his back on that particular play. I'd rather he get his defensive house in order first and then maybe, reintegrate offence.
 
Jalili said:
cw said:
Beyond the stats, he simply didn't look as good and seemed more prone to errors. I think his game suffered without Tomas - significantly.

That's the same observation I made. I didn't think it was as extreme as those +/- numbers suggest though.

I don't endorse the +/- numbers as proportionally indicative. They're not that precise. He didn't play as well as he had before Kaberle departed and all the +/- numbers do is roughly support or substantiate that.
 
I have to give Komi some credit, he hasn't been nearly as bad this year as the previous two.  I saw some real nice defensive plays from him yesterday.  Outmuscling a forward and getting the puck out a few times.  Nothing fancy, chip it out, use his body, get in the way kind of plays.  If he can continue that level of play then there's no doubt he'd valuable back there.

On Kessel's breakaway I had flashes of Jagr the other night.  Thinking, 'ok you can't give this guy multiple chances like that'... but alas, no dice.  I thought he played a fairly good game, and definitely looks like a 200 foot player now.

Gustavsson was very solid.  Hoping he can build off that.
 
Erndog said:
I have to give Komi some credit, he hasn't been nearly as bad this year as the previous two.  I saw some real nice defensive plays from him yesterday.  Outmuscling a forward and getting the puck out a few times.  Nothing fancy, chip it out, use his body, get in the way kind of plays.  If he can continue that level of play then there's no doubt he'd valuable back there.

On MacArthur's goal it was Komisarek who knocked the puck away from Anisimov on the rush, MacArthur took it and turned back down ice and scored.
 
The Leafs' speed, both ways, is impressive.  A very encouraging game to watch.  The Ranger announcers were quite taken with Lupul and Gunnarsson.  I thought Grabbo was tremendous, double shifting and a factor in both ends.  If we get the PP going we will win a lot of games.
 
cw said:
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=379080
Komisarek played a season-high 19:29 alongside John-Michael Liles, looking comfortable and confident against the Rangers. "That was Komo's best game of the season by a mile," said Wilson. "He kept it simple, didn't make any plays in the middle, just chipping it off the boards and it allowed our forwards to skate to those loose pucks and get 'em deep and hem the Rangers defence in."

That was the first thing I posted about in reaction to the game right after. I hadn't heard Wilson's words but given all the crap Komisark's been through (or put himself through with his play), I thought those words were worth noting.

It's key to me because if Phaneuf & Komisarek were to play this season up to their potential, barring crazy injuries, I have absolutely no doubt this is a playoff caliber team.

I'm just wondering what's happened to Schenn! He's got secondcontractitis right now.
 
Bender said:
cw said:
http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=379080
Komisarek played a season-high 19:29 alongside John-Michael Liles, looking comfortable and confident against the Rangers. "That was Komo's best game of the season by a mile," said Wilson. "He kept it simple, didn't make any plays in the middle, just chipping it off the boards and it allowed our forwards to skate to those loose pucks and get 'em deep and hem the Rangers defence in."

That was the first thing I posted about in reaction to the game right after. I hadn't heard Wilson's words but given all the crap Komisark's been through (or put himself through with his play), I thought those words were worth noting.

It's key to me because if Phaneuf & Komisarek were to play this season up to their potential, barring crazy injuries, I have absolutely no doubt this is a playoff caliber team.

I'm just wondering what's happened to Schenn! He's got secondcontractitis right now.

People forget that he is the second youngest player on one of the youngest teams in hockey right now, one of the youngest dmen in the league - picked 12 spots ahead of Gardiner. Schenn's going to be fine. Just a slump in the road.
 
Madferret said:
So how did the Monster play? Terrible?

Pretty good but his inability to foster confidence in his teammates really messed Kessel up on a couple breakaways.
 
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