General Leafs Talk v2.0

[GhostofPotvin29]

Since there were a few stories on it yesterday, are we at all concerned about the lack of offensive output by the defense?

At even-strength? Not really. I think that's sort of a byproduct of our offensive system. But zero powerplay goals is definitely a problem. Especially now that the PP is starting to go cold.

I'd still be concerned about it at 5 on 5.  The Leafs rank 19th in goals at even-strength.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'd still be concerned about it at 5 on 5.  The Leafs rank 19th in goals at even-strength.

I just meant that it's not really something that I blame the defencemen for. Obviously most goals from the defence are scored from point shots, and the teams quick-strike offence doesn't really cause very many chances for those. If they start getting more possession time and do a better job cycling the puck along the boards the goals from the blueline will come. Until then the opportunities just won't be there for them.

 

[mr grieves]

I'd still be concerned about it at 5 on 5.  The Leafs rank 19th in goals at even-strength.

I just meant that it's not really something that I blame the defencemen for. Obviously most goals from the defence are scored from point shots, and the teams quick-strike offence doesn't really cause very many chances for those. If they start getting more possession time and do a better job cycling the puck along the boards the goals from the blueline will come. Until then the opportunities just won't be there for them.

Yeah, and that seems to be where Moon's point above about the terrible playmaking of the centers comes in. It's a problem that, with their top centers in the line-up for all but 2 games, the Leafs are in the bottom third of the league in ES scoring.

 

[hap_leaf]

I'd still be concerned about it at 5 on 5.  The Leafs rank 19th in goals at even-strength.

I just meant that it's not really something that I blame the defencemen for. Obviously most goals from the defence are scored from point shots, and the teams quick-strike offence doesn't really cause very many chances for those. If they start getting more possession time and do a better job cycling the puck along the boards the goals from the blueline will come. Until then the opportunities just won't be there for them.

ES, yes.  But I'm expecting more from the D at least on the PP where they have some time to set up.
Either way, ES or PP:
No goals from Franson in 17 games, unacceptable.
No goals at all from Rielly and Gardiner combined, unacceptable.  At some point the youth/just learning card runs thin.
No goals, one assist in 17 games from Gunner, unacceptable.

 

[TML fan]

I'd still be concerned about it at 5 on 5.  The Leafs rank 19th in goals at even-strength.

I just meant that it's not really something that I blame the defencemen for. Obviously most goals from the defence are scored from point shots, and the teams quick-strike offence doesn't really cause very many chances for those. If they start getting more possession time and do a better job cycling the puck along the boards the goals from the blueline will come. Until then the opportunities just won't be there for them.

ES, yes.  But I'm expecting more from the D at least on the PP where they have some time to set up.
Either way, ES or PP:
No goals from Franson in 17 games, unacceptable.
No goals at all from Rielly and Gardiner combined, unacceptable.  At some point the youth/just learning card runs thin.
No goals, one assist in 17 games from Gunner, unacceptable.

Why do you think this is happening?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The 5 on 5 scoring on this team has just been absolutely gutted.  Last year was obviously an off-year, but the two seasons previous Grabovski put up 80% & 74% of his total points at even-strength.  MacArthur was similarly high, at 79% and 69%.  Even with his different role last season, Grabovski was still only 5 even-strength points behind the Leafs first line C.

I think this may become a pressing issue going forward this season.

 

[moon111]

How long can you play keep away with the puck in the NHL?  The Leafs are carrying the puck more because they can't make plays.  Whether it's the coaching system or the lack of play-making centers, they need to get it off their stick faster.  Shoot-ins being chased down by Clarkson.  Faster passes to open players.  But they can't carry it as much without expecting turn-overs.

 

[Champ Kind]

I thought that Mark Fraser's play last night - especially when he cleared Nino  Niederreiter from the front of the net and scared the daylights out of Kyle Brodziak when he came in to half-heartedly help - was a real clear indication of why he is important to the Leaf's defense.  He brings a different element to the team and can play decently as a 6'th d-man.  No fighting involved on this play, but his physical play is an important component to the Leafs' 6 (7) man defense.

 

[nutman]

I think our lack of healthy players is the only reason for our lack of puck control. with two and maybe the top three centers out there is not one team in the NHL that would not be affected. I will hold judgment until we are some what healthy.

 

[Bullfrog]

Not a huge fan of his (don't dislike him either) but I thought he played well. Good physical play and made a couple of nice breakout passes too.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I've been hard on Fraser before but his play this season has been good. At this point there should be no reason Carlyle isn't playing 7 defencemen on a regular basis.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Count me in as well who thought he played very well last night and generally so far this season.

 

[nutman]

I've been hard on Fraser before but his play this season has been good. At this point there should be no reason Carlyle isn't playing 7 defencemen on a regular basis.

It would be much better then putting in two goons, for two mins a game.

 

[armche123]

I thought that Mark Fraser's play last night - especially when he cleared Nino  Niederreiter from the front of the net and scared the daylights out of Kyle Brodziak when he came in to half-heartedly help - was a real clear indication of why he is important to the Leaf's defense.  He brings a different element to the team and can play decently as a 6'th d-man.  No fighting involved on this play, but his physical play is an important component to the Leafs' 6 (7) man defense.

I agree. I think he does bring that stay at home, rugged style of play, which is a presence we have been missing for a while on the Leafs.

I'm pleased that he has made a return to the game, he seems healthy, and will be useful if and when the Leafs make the playoffs this year.

 

[AvroArrow]

I've been hard on Fraser before but his play this season has been good. At this point there should be no reason Carlyle isn't playing 7 defencemen on a regular basis.

I thought Fraser was good last season, too.  I mean, it's not like I thought he was a #1 or 2, or even 3 or 4, but for his role - a tough, bottom pairing guy - I thought he's done quite well since playing here.

 

[mr grieves]

The 5 on 5 scoring on this team has just been absolutely gutted.  Last year was obviously an off-year, but the two seasons previous Grabovski put up 80% & 74% of his total points at even-strength.  MacArthur was similarly high, at 79% and 69%.  Even with his different role last season, Grabovski was still only 5 even-strength points behind the Leafs first line C.

I think this may become a pressing issue going forward this season.

Agreed with the problem, but the diagnosis seems off. Last season, without Grabo contributing much offensively, the team had their best 5 on 5 scoring season in the last five.

Here are the numbers, projected to 82 games:
2009/10 -- 154
2010/11 -- 150
2011/12 -- 156
2012/13 -- 179 pace (105 in 48)
2013/14 -- 132 pace (29 in 18)

Something definitely off now. I don't think it's Grabovski (though the 11 ES goals he's been in on would be a help), but I think the problem this season is more than injuries. The team's only been without centers for 3 games now, and their even-strength scoring was off before Bolland & Bozak went down.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The 5 on 5 scoring on this team has just been absolutely gutted.  Last year was obviously an off-year, but the two seasons previous Grabovski put up 80% & 74% of his total points at even-strength.  MacArthur was similarly high, at 79% and 69%.  Even with his different role last season, Grabovski was still only 5 even-strength points behind the Leafs first line C.

I think this may become a pressing issue going forward this season.

Agreed with the problem, but the diagnosis seems off. Last season, without Grabo contributing much offensively, the team had their best 5 on 5 scoring season in the last five.

Here are the numbers, projected to 82 games:
2009/10 -- 154
2010/11 -- 150
2011/12 -- 156
2012/13 -- 179 pace (105 in 48)
2013/14 -- 132 pace (29 in 18)

Something definitely off now. I don't think it's Grabovski (though the 11 ES goals he's been in on would be a help), but I think the problem this season is more than injuries. The team's only been without centers for 3 games now, and their even-strength scoring was off before Bolland & Bozak went down.

Because last season the team shot an unsustainable 10.56% at ES.  The year before it was 8.47%, the year before that 8.40% and the year before that 7.37%.

If the team isn't getting incredibly fortunate SH% at ES then it probably hurts not to have players who have historically performed strong at ES in the lineup.

 

[mr grieves]

Because last season the team shot an unsustainable 10.56% at ES.  The year before it was 8.47%, the year before that 8.40% and the year before that 7.37%.

If the team isn't getting incredibly fortunate SH% at ES then it probably hurts not to have players who have historically performed strong at ES in the lineup.

So, you're saying someone thinking Kadri's coming out (half) season made Grabovski expendable was mistaken?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I can't say for sure, just find it interesting that Grabovski/MacArthur were two of the strongest points-producers at ES the last few years in Toronto and the team now finds itself struggling to produce offense at even strength.

Now Grabovski is on a line in Washington putting up numbers: http://www.japersrink.com/2013/11/14/5096054/the-capitals-other-first-line-grabovski-ward-chimera

Just thinking there may be a connection between losing a strong even-strength producer and the team struggling to produce even strength offense when their SH% isn't abnormally high.

 

[hap_leaf]

Potvin, your reasoning makes a lot of sense. 
It would help if Clarkson picks up some slack on ES.