General Leafs Talk
- Thread starter armche123
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Zee
Active member
I have to give Wilson props for how he handled the goalie selection yesterday, he told both guys that Scrivens was starting in the morning, but told them not to say anything to the press. That kept the reporters from hounding Scrivens all day long and/or second guessing the choice even before gametime. Just took that extra pressure off Scrivens before the start.
maplesyrup
New member
I'm not entirely familiar with how OCPR formulas are calculated but this me happy nevertheless,
NHL Player Rankings After October
Forwards
1. Phil Kessel, Toronto - 84.63
2. Claude Giroux, Philadelphia - 83.90
3. Anze Kopitar, Los Angeles - 80.69
4. James Neal, Pittsburgh - 78.66
5. Joe Pavelski, San Jose - 77.53
6. Milan Michalek, Ottawa - 77.37
7. Jason Spezza, Ottawa - 76.56
8. Jason Pominville, Buffalo - 74.95
9. Jonathan Toews, Chicago - 74.22
10. Ryan Callahan, NY Rangers - 73.98
Defense
1. Dion Phaneuf, Toronto - 96.29
2. Kris Letang, Pittsburgh - 95.12
3. Alexander Edler, Vancouver - 94.95
4. Ryan Suter, Nashville - 87.38
5. Sami Salo, Vancouver - 84.67
6. Shea Weber, Nashville - 84.60
7. Erik Karlsson, Ottawa - 84.34
8. Kyle Quincey, Colorado - 84.30
9. Jason Garrison, Florida - 84.28
10. Alex Pietrangelo, St. Louis - 83.81
Read more: link
Edit: Reimer ranked 11th among goalies, BTW. - Not too shabby.
NHL Player Rankings After October
Forwards
1. Phil Kessel, Toronto - 84.63
2. Claude Giroux, Philadelphia - 83.90
3. Anze Kopitar, Los Angeles - 80.69
4. James Neal, Pittsburgh - 78.66
5. Joe Pavelski, San Jose - 77.53
6. Milan Michalek, Ottawa - 77.37
7. Jason Spezza, Ottawa - 76.56
8. Jason Pominville, Buffalo - 74.95
9. Jonathan Toews, Chicago - 74.22
10. Ryan Callahan, NY Rangers - 73.98
Defense
1. Dion Phaneuf, Toronto - 96.29
2. Kris Letang, Pittsburgh - 95.12
3. Alexander Edler, Vancouver - 94.95
4. Ryan Suter, Nashville - 87.38
5. Sami Salo, Vancouver - 84.67
6. Shea Weber, Nashville - 84.60
7. Erik Karlsson, Ottawa - 84.34
8. Kyle Quincey, Colorado - 84.30
9. Jason Garrison, Florida - 84.28
10. Alex Pietrangelo, St. Louis - 83.81
Read more: link
Edit: Reimer ranked 11th among goalies, BTW. - Not too shabby.
maplesyrup
New member
Their use of art has always been really, REALLY bad.
Some people want to look at the standings and just say "yeah" but others don't mind talking about the really big flaws. After tonight they look even worse.
Kessel - no goals in 4 games and 1 goal in 6
Goals for = 45
Goals Against = 46
PK - 30th
The scoring (or at least the potential for scoring) is great. Kessel, or Lupul, or Grabo, or MacArthur etc. are exciting to watch and they have been scoring some goals. But the D - or the team's defensive play - is just failing badly and it is going from a ild problem to a glaring concern.
I still think on paper they should be able to kill penalties and reduce the goals against. I just do not know why that is not happening.
Kessel - no goals in 4 games and 1 goal in 6
Goals for = 45
Goals Against = 46
PK - 30th
The scoring (or at least the potential for scoring) is great. Kessel, or Lupul, or Grabo, or MacArthur etc. are exciting to watch and they have been scoring some goals. But the D - or the team's defensive play - is just failing badly and it is going from a ild problem to a glaring concern.
I still think on paper they should be able to kill penalties and reduce the goals against. I just do not know why that is not happening.
ZBBM
Active member
Fanatic said:
The GF/GA doesn't concern me because a loss like tonight has a disproportionate effect on the stat. Last in the league in PK? No team will make the playoffs with that.
I know no one wants to enter the tired debate over how much fault Wilson bears. All I know is that he hasn't been able to fix it, his new assistants haven't been able to fix it, so it's time for a whole new approach from them.
TheMightyOdin
New member
Potvin29 said:
He answered back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4yuiEJyepc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
And then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rkqqghWkQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Boston Leaf
New member
we are not well coached... all around.. Someone remind me about the great work Francois Allaire has done with the leafs?
Well... going into the Columbus game I was struck by how similar the the stats were for the PK and PP of the two teams with disparate record. Consider the fact that Columbus has lost some games it should have won as well as some close ones (in addition to the not close at all ones of course) and you get an idea just how little separates worst from first.
We simply are not as good as our record indicates.
As for the trade, on one side of the ledger the Bruins have a Cup and Seguin with Doug Hamilton (allegedly a Rob Blake type but we will see about that) and we have a pretty good scorer.
I am willing to discount the effect of the trade on the Cup win because I believe that the Bruins with Kessel would have been a lot stronger than the Bruins with Seguin at that stage of Segiun's career.
On the other hand, the addition of Kessel to our line up has not translated this team to any great improvement. I do not blame Kessel in the least -- he is playing well and has scored in decent numbers since he arrived,
The fact is that we were way farther away from any respectability than a Kessel. We would have been better building with a Segiun and a Hamilton and making a trade for a missing star some time around next season or possibly at the trade deadline this one.
The prematurity of the Kessel trade has done a disservice to Kessel and to the development of this team. It is like putting lipstick on a pig.
Last night's result may have been extreme but I found it unsurprising. We still need a better roster and we have to go through that "learn to lose" phase in order to learn how to win.
We simply are not as good as our record indicates.
As for the trade, on one side of the ledger the Bruins have a Cup and Seguin with Doug Hamilton (allegedly a Rob Blake type but we will see about that) and we have a pretty good scorer.
I am willing to discount the effect of the trade on the Cup win because I believe that the Bruins with Kessel would have been a lot stronger than the Bruins with Seguin at that stage of Segiun's career.
On the other hand, the addition of Kessel to our line up has not translated this team to any great improvement. I do not blame Kessel in the least -- he is playing well and has scored in decent numbers since he arrived,
The fact is that we were way farther away from any respectability than a Kessel. We would have been better building with a Segiun and a Hamilton and making a trade for a missing star some time around next season or possibly at the trade deadline this one.
The prematurity of the Kessel trade has done a disservice to Kessel and to the development of this team. It is like putting lipstick on a pig.
Last night's result may have been extreme but I found it unsurprising. We still need a better roster and we have to go through that "learn to lose" phase in order to learn how to win.
Hank Yarbo
New member
I think this pretty much sums up last nights game:
KW Sluggo said:
I am so sick about hearing about the Kessel trade. Whether the Leafs won or lost the deal is irrevelant now. It's done.
This is like driving a car, by looking through the rear view mirror to try to figure out which way the road is bending.
Kessel didn't trade himself, so why put this extra burden on his shoulders. Burke made the deal, and he's won FAR MORE than he's lost. The team is on an upward trend, is far deeper than its been in a long time. The butt kicking last night can happen to any team, any time. The Bruins were at their best last night, like they were in the playoffs, when they trashed Vancouver twice in the own barn, with Luongo and the top team standing wise overall for the season. Crap happens.
I'd sooner address what we need going forward. Here's where I see some defencies. Obviously, special teams, but beyond that.
I like to see one center who is a defensive specialist (while capable of offence), some one who could shutdown top players on other teams.
I like to see more turculence up front, punishing type forwards. Guys like Roberts, Tucker, Domi, Green and Corson used to intimidate the more skilled Sens, but they were also skilled players in their own right. We have a lot of the same types of players.
I've been a long time Wilson supporter, and the team is winning more, but some of these trends are really disturbing.
1. All the breakaways.
2. Lack of pressure on the PK and gaps all over the place
3. Inability to get traffic in front of the net on the PK.
4. Inability to move the puck out along the boards, when opposition pinches
5. Leaving opposition points open to make plays way too much.
6. Inability of defence to clear way rebounds
Some of these trends have to change, if the good record they built up is to stay intact.
Zee
Active member
Fanatic said:
I'm not going to argue that there aren't problems, but goals for/goals against is a bit of a mirage here.
45 for 46 against in 14 games
Take away the 2 absolutely brutal games against the Bruins and it's :
43 for and 33 against in 12 other games -- that is not bad at all.
bustaheims
Active member
Zee said:
It's not ideal, but, I agree, it's not bad either.
A couple other positive statistics (in light of all the recent negativity):
The Leafs have won every game where they're had a lead of 2 or more goals. In fact, they have yet to allow the opposition to tie the game when they've put up a lead of 2 or more.
On 4 occasions, the Leafs held the lead but did not win the game. However, in all those cases, it was an early 1 goal lead that did not last the period. The Leafs have to play a game where they finished a period with the lead and did not win.
In 2 of the 6 games where the Leafs trailed by more than 1 goal, they have come back to win. In 4 of the 8 games in which the Leafs trailed in the 3rd period, they have come back to earn at least a point - 3 of those 4 games being wins.
The Leafs have scored the first goal in 9 of 14 games this season, though, oddly enough, they're 4-1-0 when giving up the first goal, while only 5-3-1 when scoring it themselves.
leafplasma
New member
Another thing to note just to try to spin a little bit of positive on this. The Bruins the defensive juggernaut and stanley cup champions had 7 goals scored against them once and 6 goals scored against them twice last season. It happens to the best of them. We have had the luxury of our number one goalie for what amounts to only 5 of the 14 games this season. This is still a very young team that will go through some ups and downs.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Fanatic said:
Just as a 5-6 night on the PP, and 0-fers on other nights, would not be indicative of much long-term about our PP, 2 extremely poor showings against Boston do not indicate much overall about the team. Anomaly.
Now, if this result keeps happening again and again more frequently, then yes it is cause for concern. But if not, we'd hardly be the first team, or only team in the league, to have another team have our number.
Just as we are wondering why the Leafs play like this against Boston, Bruins fans I'm sure are wondering why this season the Bruins can't play like they do against the Leafs against other teams.
It reminds me of why, for whatever reason, Brodeur's regular season numbers were never that good against us, even when our team was poor. He could be great against everyone else, and then against us it would be different.
Potvin29 said:
That is a good point and you are right. If Boston simply has the Leafs number then so be it I suppose.
But if you look back at this young season you can see an opener against the Habs where the Leafs were non-existent for half the game and lucky to win, a 2nd game against Ottawa where they built a 5-1 lead and then barely hung on to a 6-5 win, a NJ game where a weak goalie gave us the win and a CBJ game where an even weaker goalie did the same. My point is that the Leafs are not nearly as good as their record seems to indicate. It is not wrong to point out that some of this euphoria is not well placed or well considered.
Wins are wins and they help get to the playoff goal, but I am still a long way from being convinced that this is a playoff team. Goals against and PK are the two most glaring problems that make me feel that way. on top of that the Leafs were fortunate to open the season riding a hot hand by Kessel, but now that has dried up again (although it will come back again as it always does).
I just want more..... isn't that fair?
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
Zee said:
I don't get the Kessel criticism.
He's the leading scorer in the league (pts and goals), leads (or lead) in plus minus, and in the aforementioned last 6 games, where he only has 1 goal, he has 6 pts.
The knock on Kessel was that he went through scoring droughts and, unlike other better players, brought nothing else to the table. No defence, few assists, and was basically invisible. That simply isn't true this year. Now there's a new reason to knock the guy.
Most players who score 6 pts in 6 games are seen to be producing at a very good clip. Kessel on the other hand doesn't have enough goals......
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