Goaltending conundrum

[Corn Flake]

Shores us up for 2-3 years until ... what?  None of our prospects is an obvious heir apparent like Rask or Schneider.  They are all huge question marks.

If there was an obvious Rask or Schneider then we wouldn't be talking about vets at all. In both those cases you have guys who should have been starters probably 2 years ago stuck behind a veteran.  The Leafs have 3-4 "prospect" goalies, two of which are barely old enough to be entering the years which a goalie usually steps into a starting role.  I still believe Reimer can bounce back, cushioned by a veteran to ease the load, pressure and exude some experience on him. 

The real issue here is not whether you think Luongo can be effective until he's 42.  It's whether he will be until he's 38 or 39.  Potvin adduced some stats to say that there's a good likelihood; cw's Vezina analysis casts doubt.

To me, I see a big guy like Luongo who plays a butterfly style as perhaps having injury/mobility issues a little earlier than, say, a Brodeur.  That militates against going after him.  But if the dropoff is only marginal (and who can say? this is all necessarily guesswork) and you've gotten, e.g., 5 good years out of him, is it worth it?

It's a really intriguing issue.  Luongo is just old enough and his play (in the playoffs at least) has cast just enough doubt so that it's not a no-brainer.  But the payoff for taking a chance on him could be very high.  If he maintains his level of play for 5-6 years, that should be enough time for the Leafs to position themselves to make a couple of runs at it in a high-parity league.  Just look at this year's playoffs.

If you could promise me Luongo was going to perform at the current level until 38 then I would be in favor of the deal. I'm not convinced he will be there in 5 years.  For Luongo to work you have to get at least 5 years out of him, and he has to be better than he was last year.... as good as he was in the reg. season 2 years ago. None of this slow start crap.

I don't know how anyone can say for certain he can do that.

 

[maplesyrup]

With all due respect, I almost find it funny how people can possibly debate, regardless of price of trade, whether Luongo is worth having on the team.

If the Leafs were to get him, after years of brutal goaltending, we'd all be in love with Luongo after about 15-20 games, and that's even with his typical October slow start. Not to mention he's only 33, he probably has five years of great goaltending left in him.

My issue is't with Luongo as a capable goaltender. My issues are;

A) What would be the price to acquire him?
B) Does he have the mental make-up to handle Toronto where it appears Vancouver cracked him?
C) Assuming he provides us with a few years of decent goaltending, what happens to the contract after then?
D) Am I prepared to close the door on the Reimer era?

 

[Zee]

All the replies in here have really spelled out the issues and questions quite well.  It truly is a goaltending conundrum.  See how I tied the title back in?  :-*

 

[Corn Flake]

All the replies in here have really spelled out the issues and questions quite well.  It truly is a goaltending conundrum.  See how I tied the title back in?  :-*

*closes thread*

 

[Etiam Vultus]

With all due respect, I almost find it funny how people can possibly debate, regardless of price of trade, whether Luongo is worth having on the team.

If the Leafs were to get him, after years of brutal goaltending, we'd all be in love with Luongo after about 15-20 games, and that's even with his typical October slow start. Not to mention he's only 33, he probably has five years of great goaltending left in him.

My issue is't with Luongo as a capable goaltender. My issues are;

A) What would be the price to acquire him?
B) Does he have the mental make-up to handle Toronto where it appears Vancouver cracked him?
C) Assuming he provides us with a few years of decent goaltending, what happens to the contract after then?
D) Am I prepared to close the door on the Reimer era?

Four great issues to discuss.

A)  Price:  Luongo is an option if and only if the price is reasonable.  If it is too high, then Burke et al. should look at the other options.  If the price is low, then Luongo is worthwhile considering.

B)  Mental Makeup:  I dispute that the Luongo cracked under the pressure in Vancouver.  Right up to and including his recent interview where he indicated that he was prepared to waive his no-trade clause, he has acted with a great deal of class.  He has had some bad games in goal, but what goalie hasn't?  His overall statistics are still pretty good and he has had a darn good career up to this point.

C)  Long Term Contract:  I left my crystal ball in my other suit, so I cannot predict how well Luongo will perform as his career progresses.  However, other goalies of his status have performed well into their late 30's and even early 40's. (Brodeur turns 40 next month.)  Luongo's contract is structured financially so that he is paid as a first string goalie for the next six years and as a backup for the last four.  Is it reasonable to expect him to continue to perform as a first string goalie until he is 39?  While it would be foolish to take on Luongo's contract expecting to bury it in the minors near the end, that is a reasonable fall-back position if his play should deteriorate.

D)  Reimer.  I continue to have high hopes for Reimer, but he is still unproven.  It is also unrealistic to expect him to be a first string goalie so quickly.  How many goalies have benefited from backing up for a few years, especially if they can watch and learn from an elite goalie?  Six years is longer than ideal, but both Luongo and Reimer appear to have the temperments to work together.  The worst case scenario is that Lungo continues to perform as a starting goalie and Reimer develops into one.  Wouldn't that be a great problem to have?  Too many number one goalies!  We would have to trade one for other assets!. 

 

[Corn Flake]

Four great issues to discuss.

A)  Price:  Luongo is an option if and only if the price is reasonable.  If it is too high, then Burke et al. should look at the other options.  If the price is low, then Luongo is worthwhile considering.

B)  Mental Makeup:  I dispute that the Luongo cracked under the pressure in Vancouver.  Right up to and including his recent interview where he indicated that he was prepared to waive his no-trade clause, he has acted with a great deal of class.  He has had some bad games in goal, but what goalie hasn't?  His overall statistics are still pretty good and he has had a darn good career up to this point.

C)  Long Term Contract:  I left my crystal ball in my other suit, so I cannot predict how well Luongo will perform as his career progresses.  However, other goalies of his status have performed well into their late 30's and even early 40's. (Brodeur turns 40 next month.)  Luongo's contract is structured financially so that he is paid as a first string goalie for the next six years and as a backup for the last four.  Is it reasonable to expect him to continue to perform as a first string goalie until he is 39?  While it would be foolish to take on Luongo's contract expecting to bury it in the minors near the end, that is a reasonable fall-back position if his play should deteriorate.

D)  Reimer.  I continue to have high hopes for Reimer, but he is still unproven.  It is also unrealistic to expect him to be a first string goalie so quickly.  How many goalies have benefited from backing up for a few years, especially if they can watch and learn from an elite goalie?  Six years is longer than ideal, but both Luongo and Reimer appear to have the temperments to work together.  The worst case scenario is that Lungo continues to perform as a starting goalie and Reimer develops into one.  Wouldn't that be a great problem to have?  Too many number one goalies!  We would have to trade one for other assets!.

Good points.  They got me thinking a little bit more on this....

I think for Luongo in Toronto to happen and be a success, everything noted above will have to work out as best as it possibly can. 

Price: Burke will have to score on the trade. He can't pay a fortune, give up a premium prospect or pick, and he needs to move one bad contract as well... .either Komisarek, Lombardi or Connolly have to go the other way. Paying a steep price AGAIN for a goalie will crank up the pressure on Luongo 10x. 

And personally, if he trades that 1st round pick for Luongo, I am 1000% done as a Leafs fan. 

Mental makeup.. I think Luongo is going to fare here as well as he did in Van. I think it got to him at times, but I also think Van would have made him tougher and able to handle it.  I think they are more insane there as their expectations are through the roof.

Reimer... you do need 2 legit goalies to survive now so maybe Reimer can live in tandem and play 30 games a year and be content.  He always has that goofy grin on his face so nothing seems to phase him.  Maybe as a 1/3 backup he can succeed.  I don't think he has Cory Schneider ability in him so it's not as if he would completely usurp Luongo, unless Luongo really started to slip. 

So all that, to me it comes down to how long Luongo is going to stay at the level he is at and the moment he slips, even a little, this thing would go very sour in a hurry. 

 

[cw]

With all due respect, I almost find it funny how people can possibly debate, regardless of price of trade, whether Luongo is worth having on the team.

If the Leafs were to get him, after years of brutal goaltending, we'd all be in love with Luongo after about 15-20 games, and that's even with his typical October slow start. Not to mention he's only 33, he probably has five years of great goaltending left in him.

I guess it depends what you're interested in. A playoff appearance or a Cup. I think the Luongo decision flirts with making that choice.

If the Leafs had a contending roster in every other way and the only missing piece was a good starting goalie, getting Luongo now makes more sense. But that sure isn't the Leafs team I watched this season. At the very least, they probably need a franchise center and a stud dman. They'd have a heck of a time adding all three in their current cap situation much less keep them when Kessel & Lupul's contracts come due.

Although they showed they could score in a run and gun system, that dried up some when Carlyle shifted them to be more defensively oriented. It would be at least questionable if the current group can deliver offensively in the tighter, more physical playoffs. And they now have to make a talent transition to Carlyle's more defensive, more physical system. Meanwhile, I don't think anyone would mistake the teams top 6 dmen as Cup caliber. Nor would they feel we've got a great bottom six for the PK, checking & chipping in with scoring. So they have quite a bit of work to do beyond getting a goalie to improve this roster to contender level.

The roster is currently cap constrained. There are things Burke can do to get some relief but he's signed himself into a tighter corner than he's ever had. So that's a little tougher than it's been to date.

It is a sports team so anything could happen. But it would be pretty shocking to most if the Leafs wound up in the Cup final over the next couple of years. It's pretty unlikely. Therefore, Luongo may help them get into the playoffs. And hopefully, the team gets better over the next couple of years in other areas.

But it's pretty likely that as (if) they get better, Luongo is likely to tail off after age 35 or so. Then where are they? Cap constrained with a $5.3 mil backup?

There's no question in my mind that Luongo would improve them. But my concern is if they can come together quickly enough around him to win a Cup. I've seen lots of playoffs since '67. Making an appearance in the playoffs just doesn't do much for me any more. I want to see a parade and I'm not convinced we will if they sign Luongo.

 

[Bender]

Four great issues to discuss.

A)  Price:  Luongo is an option if and only if the price is reasonable.  If it is too high, then Burke et al. should look at the other options.  If the price is low, then Luongo is worthwhile considering.

B)  Mental Makeup:  I dispute that the Luongo cracked under the pressure in Vancouver.  Right up to and including his recent interview where he indicated that he was prepared to waive his no-trade clause, he has acted with a great deal of class.  He has had some bad games in goal, but what goalie hasn't?  His overall statistics are still pretty good and he has had a darn good career up to this point.

C)  Long Term Contract:  I left my crystal ball in my other suit, so I cannot predict how well Luongo will perform as his career progresses.  However, other goalies of his status have performed well into their late 30's and even early 40's. (Brodeur turns 40 next month.)  Luongo's contract is structured financially so that he is paid as a first string goalie for the next six years and as a backup for the last four.  Is it reasonable to expect him to continue to perform as a first string goalie until he is 39?  While it would be foolish to take on Luongo's contract expecting to bury it in the minors near the end, that is a reasonable fall-back position if his play should deteriorate.

D)  Reimer.  I continue to have high hopes for Reimer, but he is still unproven.  It is also unrealistic to expect him to be a first string goalie so quickly.  How many goalies have benefited from backing up for a few years, especially if they can watch and learn from an elite goalie?  Six years is longer than ideal, but both Luongo and Reimer appear to have the temperments to work together.  The worst case scenario is that Lungo continues to perform as a starting goalie and Reimer develops into one.  Wouldn't that be a great problem to have?  Too many number one goalies!  We would have to trade one for other assets!.

Good points.  They got me thinking a little bit more on this....

I think for Luongo in Toronto to happen and be a success, everything noted above will have to work out as best as it possibly can. 

Price: Burke will have to score on the trade. He can't pay a fortune, give up a premium prospect or pick, and he needs to move one bad contract as well... .either Komisarek, Lombardi or Connolly have to go the other way. Paying a steep price AGAIN for a goalie will crank up the pressure on Luongo 10x. 

And personally, if he trades that 1st round pick for Luongo, I am 1000% done as a Leafs fan. 

Mental makeup.. I think Luongo is going to fare here as well as he did in Van. I think it got to him at times, but I also think Van would have made him tougher and able to handle it.  I think they are more insane there as their expectations are through the roof.

Reimer... you do need 2 legit goalies to survive now so maybe Reimer can live in tandem and play 30 games a year and be content.  He always has that goofy grin on his face so nothing seems to phase him.  Maybe as a 1/3 backup he can succeed.  I don't think he has Cory Schneider ability in him so it's not as if he would completely usurp Luongo, unless Luongo really started to slip. 

So all that, to me it comes down to how long Luongo is going to stay at the level he is at and the moment he slips, even a little, this thing would go very sour in a hurry.

I really can't see how he trades the pick for Luongo. That's just madness, and I think the rest of the management team would agree!

 

[ZBBM]

Shores us up for 2-3 years until ... what?  None of our prospects is an obvious heir apparent like Rask or Schneider.  They are all huge question marks.

If there was an obvious Rask or Schneider then we wouldn't be talking about vets at all. In both those cases you have guys who should have been starters probably 2 years ago stuck behind a veteran.  The Leafs have 3-4 "prospect" goalies, two of which are barely old enough to be entering the years which a goalie usually steps into a starting role.  I still believe Reimer can bounce back, cushioned by a veteran to ease the load, pressure and exude some experience on him. 

The real issue here is not whether you think Luongo can be effective until he's 42.  It's whether he will be until he's 38 or 39.  Potvin adduced some stats to say that there's a good likelihood; cw's Vezina analysis casts doubt.

To me, I see a big guy like Luongo who plays a butterfly style as perhaps having injury/mobility issues a little earlier than, say, a Brodeur.  That militates against going after him.  But if the dropoff is only marginal (and who can say? this is all necessarily guesswork) and you've gotten, e.g., 5 good years out of him, is it worth it?

It's a really intriguing issue.  Luongo is just old enough and his play (in the playoffs at least) has cast just enough doubt so that it's not a no-brainer.  But the payoff for taking a chance on him could be very high.  If he maintains his level of play for 5-6 years, that should be enough time for the Leafs to position themselves to make a couple of runs at it in a high-parity league.  Just look at this year's playoffs.

If you could promise me Luongo was going to perform at the current level until 38 then I would be in favor of the deal. I'm not convinced he will be there in 5 years.  For Luongo to work you have to get at least 5 years out of him, and he has to be better than he was last year.... as good as he was in the reg. season 2 years ago. None of this slow start crap.

I don't know how anyone can say for certain he can do that.

Well, of course.  But apply the same standard in your second bolded statement to your first bolded statement.

I can't promise, and never pretended to, that Luongo will be good for 5-6 more years -- which is the threshold for success in this calculation, as I've said.  The question is, which is higher: the odds that Luongo will be a success that long, or that Reimer will become as good as Luongo has already demonstrated he can be?

 

[Corn Flake]

Shores us up for 2-3 years until ... what?  None of our prospects is an obvious heir apparent like Rask or Schneider.  They are all huge question marks.

If there was an obvious Rask or Schneider then we wouldn't be talking about vets at all. In both those cases you have guys who should have been starters probably 2 years ago stuck behind a veteran.  The Leafs have 3-4 "prospect" goalies, two of which are barely old enough to be entering the years which a goalie usually steps into a starting role.  I still believe Reimer can bounce back, cushioned by a veteran to ease the load, pressure and exude some experience on him. 

The real issue here is not whether you think Luongo can be effective until he's 42.  It's whether he will be until he's 38 or 39.  Potvin adduced some stats to say that there's a good likelihood; cw's Vezina analysis casts doubt.

To me, I see a big guy like Luongo who plays a butterfly style as perhaps having injury/mobility issues a little earlier than, say, a Brodeur.  That militates against going after him.  But if the dropoff is only marginal (and who can say? this is all necessarily guesswork) and you've gotten, e.g., 5 good years out of him, is it worth it?

It's a really intriguing issue.  Luongo is just old enough and his play (in the playoffs at least) has cast just enough doubt so that it's not a no-brainer.  But the payoff for taking a chance on him could be very high.  If he maintains his level of play for 5-6 years, that should be enough time for the Leafs to position themselves to make a couple of runs at it in a high-parity league.  Just look at this year's playoffs.

If you could promise me Luongo was going to perform at the current level until 38 then I would be in favor of the deal. I'm not convinced he will be there in 5 years.  For Luongo to work you have to get at least 5 years out of him, and he has to be better than he was last year.... as good as he was in the reg. season 2 years ago. None of this slow start crap.

I don't know how anyone can say for certain he can do that.

Well, of course.  But apply the same standard in your second bolded statement to your first bolded statement.

I can't promise, and never pretended to, that Luongo will be good for 5-6 more years -- which is the threshold for success in this calculation, as I've said.  The question is, which is higher: the odds that Luongo will be a success that long, or that Reimer will become as good as Luongo has already demonstrated he can be?

I think the odds are better that Reimer + vet goalie would fare just as well as Luongo + Reimer, and in 3'ish years I can make the call on going with Reimer as the #1, go with another young goalie who comes through the system or go get another veteran if all else fails.  By doing so I save on the contract risk and I think I save on having unrealistic expectations that would no doubt come with the Luongo parade coming to town.

 

[Hurricane]

With all due respect, I almost find it funny how people can possibly debate, regardless of price of trade, whether Luongo is worth having on the team.

If the Leafs were to get him, after years of brutal goaltending, we'd all be in love with Luongo after about 15-20 games, and that's even with his typical October slow start. Not to mention he's only 33, he probably has five years of great goaltending left in him.

I guess it depends what you're interested in. A playoff appearance or a Cup. I think the Luongo decision flirts with making that choice.

If the Leafs had a contending roster in every other way and the only missing piece was a good starting goalie, getting Luongo now makes more sense. But that sure isn't the Leafs team I watched this season. At the very least, they probably need a franchise center and a stud dman. They'd have a heck of a time adding all three in their current cap situation much less keep them when Kessel & Lupul's contracts come due.

Although they showed they could score in a run and gun system, that dried up some when Carlyle shifted them to be more defensively oriented. It would be at least questionable if the current group can deliver offensively in the tighter, more physical playoffs. And they now have to make a talent transition to Carlyle's more defensive, more physical system. Meanwhile, I don't think anyone would mistake the teams top 6 dmen as Cup caliber. Nor would they feel we've got a great bottom six for the PK, checking & chipping in with scoring. So they have quite a bit of work to do beyond getting a goalie to improve this roster to contender level.

The roster is currently cap constrained. There are things Burke can do to get some relief but he's signed himself into a tighter corner than he's ever had. So that's a little tougher than it's been to date.

It is a sports team so anything could happen. But it would be pretty shocking to most if the Leafs wound up in the Cup final over the next couple of years. It's pretty unlikely. Therefore, Luongo may help them get into the playoffs. And hopefully, the team gets better over the next couple of years in other areas.

But it's pretty likely that as (if) they get better, Luongo is likely to tail off after age 35 or so. Then where are they? Cap constrained with a $5.3 mil backup?

There's no question in my mind that Luongo would improve them. But my concern is if they can come together quickly enough around him to win a Cup. I've seen lots of playoffs since '67. Making an appearance in the playoffs just doesn't do much for me any more. I want to see a parade and I'm not convinced we will if they sign Luongo.

I think cw brings up some good points with respect to the teams goals.  I certainly wouldn't want to trade key future pieces, like Gardiner or the 1st round pick to acquire Luongo.  If the trade centers around someone like Lupul however, i'd be a whole lot more interested.

The only other point I'd make is that there is disagreement about when we should expect Luongo's play to fall off.  He'll be 33 for the entirety of the upcoming season.  From the reading I've done, I think it's reasonable to expect him to perform at an elite level through age 37 at least - although we all know anything can happen.  I would even go so far as to say I think it's more likely Longo will be elite at age 38 or 39 (6 and 7 seasons from now respectively) than it is that James Reimer will be at any point in his career.

I think an elite goaltender is important to building a cup contender and since I think 5 seasons of elite hockey are fairly likely from Luongo, I would be happy for the Leafs to acquire him.  I think he will retire in his late 30s when he is surpassed in the lineup by a younger teammate.  I would sacrifice a lot, but probably not Gardiner or the 1st round pick.  Other than that, I'd be all ears (not Kessel either, but I think that goes without saying).

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

I was on the fence about this, but year after year of watching the Leafs miss the playoffs has me back in the "get Luongo" camp.  Even if he gives us 3-5 years of solid goaltending, I'm on board, contract be damned.  If he's no good after that, or a young gun takes over, having 5 mil less of cap space down the road is less of a problem to me than goaltending uncertainty now. 

So, all-in-all, if Luongo's price is reasonable, Burke has to make that deal.

 

[Bonsixx]

With all due respect, I almost find it funny how people can possibly debate, regardless of price of trade, whether Luongo is worth having on the team.

If the Leafs were to get him, after years of brutal goaltending, we'd all be in love with Luongo after about 15-20 games, and that's even with his typical October slow start. Not to mention he's only 33, he probably has five years of great goaltending left in him.

I guess it depends what you're interested in. A playoff appearance or a Cup. I think the Luongo decision flirts with making that choice.

I'm of the feeling that Luongo, along with a bona fide No. 1 centre (Paul Stastny? With three good, young pivots, I think Colorado is definitely the team to target a trade with...), and the team suddenly isn't so bad.

Could they win a Cup? Well if Luongo gets hot, Kessel and Lupul click with the play-making Stastny, Grabovski produces dangerous secondary scoring and Carlyle can turn the defence into something resembling defence, none of which are crazy notions, then stranger things have certainly happened...

 

[Hurricane]

I think the odds are better that Reimer + vet goalie would fare just as well as Luongo + Reimer, and in 3'ish years I can make the call on going with Reimer as the #1, go with another young goalie who comes through the system or go get another veteran if all else fails.  By doing so I save on the contract risk and I think I save on having unrealistic expectations that would no doubt come with the Luongo parade coming to town.

CF - you think it's more likely that Reimer and a vet goalie (to be named later) would fare better than Luongo with Reimer as backup?  Unless that vet is Thomas, Vokoun, Lundqvist or Kiprusoff, I think you're likely mistaken.

Luongo has been in the top 5 for sv% like every other year since the lockout.  I think his worst sv% is something like .914 (again, since the lockout).  It's just unlikely the Leafs can replicate those types of stats with any old vet and Reimer.  Goalies of Luongo's calibre don't become available often - especially with so much time left in his career.

 

[proteus2000]

At first I was adamantly opposed to Lou coming to Toronto, but after mulling over what we have to look forward to over the next 3-4 years, I say why not get him if it actually costs nothing. The Leafs can eat $13.7 mil in salary (not against the cap) in 5 years time or $7 mil in 6 years. They paid Jeff Finger $10.5 mil to be in the AHL.

 

[ZBBM]

This is your prototypical puzzling conundrum encased in a riddle ensconced in an enigma.  Made even worse by the fact that it's a real head-scratcher.

 

[Deebo]

I really can't see how he trades the pick for Luongo. That's just madness, and I think the rest of the management team would agree!

There aren't many single transactions that would cause me to lose complete interest in the team.

The 5th overall for Luoungo could be one that might.

 

[bustaheims]

I really can't see how he trades the pick for Luongo. That's just madness, and I think the rest of the management team would agree!

I don't see it happening either, and, if I'm being totally honest, I'm not sure I see a Luongo trade happening until after the draft. It's a much more complicated situation than it's being given credit for and a lot of the information we think we have is likely to prove to be inaccurate.

 

[skrackle]

I have to say, I'm impressed at how Luongo is taking control of how his NHL future will play out. He presented himself as the ultimate team guy in his first post-playoffs interview, while cleverly positioning himself to be in control of the whole trade scenario.

My first thought as to the possibility of Luongo to the Leafs was- No way. That's personal bias though, as I hate the Canucks. But he'd be a Leaf, so that's not really an issue.

The cap hit isn't that bad, but the contract length is. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect 5 excellent years from Luongo. Beyond that, things could get bad, but I think Luongo would have enough pride to retire when he's no longer at the top of his game. There is also the possibility of a re-negotiated contract, with perhaps a nice retirement position in the Leafs office in the deal.

The biggest issue is the trade price. There's probably the price that every other team on Luongo's list would pay, and then there's the Leafs price. If it's anywhere near Gardiner and the 1st round pick as I've heard, forget it.

It's a tough call. Deep down I think it's probably not the right move for the Leafs. But maybe it is, if it gives the Leafs top notch goaltending and there's enough room to improve the team around him. As The Smiths famously sung though, how soon is now? I could see the Leafs taking 5 years to put a contending team together, just as  Luongo's shelf life is expiring. But maybe Luongo accelerates the process for the Leafs.

He'll probably end up somewhere completely unexpected anyway, like Edmonton or the Islanders.

 

[Zee]

I really can't see how he trades the pick for Luongo. That's just madness, and I think the rest of the management team would agree!

There aren't many single transactions that would cause me to lose complete interest in the team.

The 5th overall for Luoungo could be one that might.

No guarantee the 5th pick will be a great player. What if the Leafs keep the pick and he turns into the second coming of Luca Cereda?  Why you heff to be mad, it's just hockey.