I don't think there's any controversy as to which two goalies are making this team. If you're a young goalie and you have a great camp, even if you play better than the projected backup, you're not going to make the big club because it's deterimental to your development to sit on the bench. Even if Gustavsson plays bad, I think it's more likely that the Leafs would go out and sign a veteran backup than bring up Scrivens. The only way Scrivens will play with the big club this year is if Reimer is injured.
Goaltending Depth Chart
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Kin
Active member
Busta Reims said:
I don't think it's an issue of asset management exactly, so much as it is the reality of dealing with the uncertainty at the position. If what we come out of camp seeing is that both Gus and Scrivens may get a look at the back-up position this year then you can either take that look with Gus first and then Scrivens with no real downside outside of maybe a couple points in the standings or you look at Scrivens first and then you possibly lose the chance to take that look at Gus.
Going with the wrong guy and maybe giving up a few points in the standings is a possibility whoever they go with. Losing Gus and having Scrivens not cut it leaves the team in a lousy situation and is a worst case scenario the team has to consider, especially if Reimer also has struggles.
Fanatic said:
Right now, I'd say it is:
1. Reimer
2. Goose
3. Scrivens - starter for Marlies
4. Rynnas - back up for Marlies
5. Owuya - ECHL
But again, it's still early in preseason. We haven't seen Rynnas play. We've only seen 60 minutes from the top 3 - a ridiculously short time to make such an evaluation.
I think goalies are very difficult to predict in this league. Countless times they flop or surprise.
Gustavsson has had stretches of very good play followed by down periods. I'm not ready to write him off quite yet in terms of whether he can find a higher level of consistency. Though for me, that could happen at any time this year - I see this as his last shot with Toronto.
Bullfrog
Active member
Busta Reims said:
Gustavsson has played what, 60 minutes, so far? I think it's far too early to make challenges such that he "has to raise his game." Basically at this time, my opinion is that it's too early to make a call on any of the goaltenders in any direction. I'm not ready to call either Gustavsson or Scrivens as the better option. Though, if someone held a gun to head, it'd be Gustavsson without hesitation based on his experience. Thankfully, I won't be feeling cold steel anytime soon and we have almost a couple more weeks to hash out the goalie situation.
Quite often, as I haven't looked yet this year, there are teams who have a decent third goalie who must clear waivers. Back in the Raycroft/Toskala days, a couple slipped past the Leafs.
If Gustavsson stinks it up and Scrivens didn't look ready, that's an avenue I'd check out by the start of the season.
For the record, I was quite high on Scrivens when they signed him and when he went to the ECHL. So my comments are nothing against him. I've always thought he was a fine prospect and I'm not surprised at all by his performances to date.
From the four of Reimer, Gustavsson, Scrivens and Rynnas, they struck me as good prospects that provided a decent chance for the Leafs to get a respectable starter (with a longer shot they'll be great) and very likely to provide a decent backup. I'm still kind of in that mode. Reimer has to prove last year wasn't a fluke and the others have to prove they can progress.
As for Busta's comments on asset management, I'm sympathetic to those words with a condition: they also have to consider injuries. If two guys go down, they could be in deep trouble without Gustavsson for example.
If Scrivens looks just a little better than Gustavsson at the end of preseason, Scrivens would be my Marlies goalie. Scrivens would have to top Gustavsson by a significant margin for me to cut Gustavsson loose because Rynnas and Owuya are such question marks.
If Gustavsson stinks it up and Scrivens didn't look ready, that's an avenue I'd check out by the start of the season.
For the record, I was quite high on Scrivens when they signed him and when he went to the ECHL. So my comments are nothing against him. I've always thought he was a fine prospect and I'm not surprised at all by his performances to date.
From the four of Reimer, Gustavsson, Scrivens and Rynnas, they struck me as good prospects that provided a decent chance for the Leafs to get a respectable starter (with a longer shot they'll be great) and very likely to provide a decent backup. I'm still kind of in that mode. Reimer has to prove last year wasn't a fluke and the others have to prove they can progress.
As for Busta's comments on asset management, I'm sympathetic to those words with a condition: they also have to consider injuries. If two guys go down, they could be in deep trouble without Gustavsson for example.
If Scrivens looks just a little better than Gustavsson at the end of preseason, Scrivens would be my Marlies goalie. Scrivens would have to top Gustavsson by a significant margin for me to cut Gustavsson loose because Rynnas and Owuya are such question marks.
Fletch said:
There's only one starting spot with the Leafs and one starting spot with the Marlies. When you consider your second and third best goalies, I would suggest the #2 guy should be starting with the farm club (even though it's perceived as being #3 on the depth chart). I'm not suggesting Gustavsson's a write-off just yet, but at this point I'd rather see Scrivens getting the starts with the Marlies. Factor in the waiver issue and that Gustavsson has some NHL experience and it makes even more sense for Gustavsson to be the backup with the big club. At this point, assuming Reimer wins the starting job over Gus, Gus will have about 30 to 35 games this year to prove he's an NHL goalie and that deserves another contract. It may be unfair because of the unexpected issues he's had to deal with since signing, but this really is his last chance to prove himself to the Leafs.
ZBBM
Well-known member
cw said:
This is the key point that much of this discussion is missing: all 4, including Reimer, are prospects. As much as I would like to assume that Reimer will pick up where he left off, he hasn't really proven anything yet. What if he bombs? Or, what if he's OK but doesn't really solidify himself as undisputed #1, and we have to go with a tandem? I would want all 4 of these guys on the roster to choose from, and not risk losing Gustavsson to waivers.
The decision not to sign an established goaltender was, I think, the right one given that we are not contenders and won't be for several years at best. Once you make that decision, you maximize its chances for success by keeping all assets. Reimer and Gus are, and should be, the tandem going into the season regardless of impressionistic evaluations like "Gus doesn't look comfortable in net."
Kin
Active member
SchenNeuf said:
I don't buy that at all. Yeah, okay, maybe it's bad for a young goalie's development to be Martin Brodeur's back-up in his prime and play in 8 games a season but the Leafs back-up is probably going to get 25-30 starts even if Reimer is healthy the whole year through. Lots of good goalies break into the league as back-ups.
leafplasma
New member
Zee said:
Yes that is what I would expect to happen anyway. It seems to be what has been done in the organization for quite some time with young goalies. Pogge wasn't even given the number one nod when he was deemed to be the goalie of the future and only the journeyman Clemmensen stood in his way on the Marlies roster.