Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier

[OldTimeHockey]

If you can't tune out the media and the fans you have no place being a goalie.

I really couldn't give a rats behind what the media thinks, says or prints and most players would probably feel the same way.  But as fans of our team and our players, we have an obligation to support our players and not run them out of town.  We have become so accustomed to having lineups of crappy players that some of us may have forgot who we are as Leaf fans.  I remember 11 years ago and before that if someone trash talked one of the Leaf players whether in conversation or online, we would be all over that person.  We need to get that attitude back.

Yeah, that's a nice thought and all, but fans of teams(in every sport) have been complaining about players since the beginning of time. It's not a 'new' thing for Toronto fans to complain about the players the Leafs ice.

I also don't think the players give a rats rearend about what you, or I, or any fan thinks. They can't. It's their job not to. Like I said, if you can't take the scrutiny, you have no place being a goalie or for that matter, an NHL player.

Well we are Leaf fans and we are supposed to be different than other fans.  I remember when polls were taken that Leaf fans were rated the most supportive of their NHL hockey team and overall 2nd or 3rd in terms of all major league sports in North America, but other polls suggest Toronto is one of the worst sports cities in North America. 

Back in '93 when the Wings dominated the Leafs in the first two games in Detroit and everyone was saying the series would be done in 4 or 5 games.  But the Leafs came back and won the next two in Toronto and the series in 7 thanks to the huge support of the fans.  So we can continue to throw bullets at players or we can go back to our roots and throw them our support.   

Call me crazy, but I don't buy it.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

If you can't tune out the media and the fans you have no place being a goalie.

I really couldn't give a rats behind what the media thinks, says or prints and most players would probably feel the same way.  But as fans of our team and our players, we have an obligation to support our players and not run them out of town.  We have become so accustomed to having lineups of crappy players that some of us may have forgot who we are as Leaf fans.  I remember 11 years ago and before that if someone trash talked one of the Leaf players whether in conversation or online, we would be all over that person.  We need to get that attitude back.

Yeah, that's a nice thought and all, but fans of teams(in every sport) have been complaining about players since the beginning of time. It's not a 'new' thing for Toronto fans to complain about the players the Leafs ice.

I also don't think the players give a rats rearend about what you, or I, or any fan thinks. They can't. It's their job not to. Like I said, if you can't take the scrutiny, you have no place being a goalie or for that matter, an NHL player.

Well we are Leaf fans and we are supposed to be different than other fans.  I remember when polls were taken that Leaf fans were rated the most supportive of their NHL hockey team and overall 2nd or 3rd in terms of all major league sports in North America, but other polls suggest Toronto is one of the worst sports cities in North America. 

Back in '93 when the Wings dominated the Leafs in the first two games in Detroit and everyone was saying the series would be done in 4 or 5 games.  But the Leafs came back and won the next two in Toronto and the series in 7 thanks to the huge support of the fans.  So we can continue to throw bullets at players or we can go back to our roots and throw them our support.   

Call me crazy, but I don't buy it.

I remember game 3 as if it happened yesterday - the Gardens was loud and rocking.  After that game some of the players couldn't believe the support that came from the fans - it got them pumped up even more for the game.  Conversely, if the fans were silent or unsupportive that game, I don't think the Leafs would have had a chance in the series. 

 

[nutman]

Admit it or not the fans play a big part in motivating the Leafs. I think most Hockey player feed off a noisy arena. As for player pressure in tor, its there, and it affects players big time. All these years of us not winning because players don't live up to there billing, is in a big part due to media, and fan pressure.

 

[Zee]

Admit it or not the fans play a big part in motivating the Leafs. I think most Hockey player feed off a noisy arena. As for player pressure in tor, its there, and it affects players big time. All these years of us not winning because players don't live up to there billing, is in a big part due to media, and fan pressure.

Why has Winnipeg not been propelled into the playoffs by their rabid fans then? 

 

[nutman]

If they make the playoffs them fans could win them a round.

 

[bustaheims]

If they make the playoffs them fans could win them a round.

Yeah, that's just not true. We like to believe that, as fans, we can make a difference, but, we can't make a team more talented, we can't help them make better decisions, etc. At the end of the day, talent, effort and strategy are what wins, and, really, the fans have little to no impact on that, and studies have been done that show that.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Admit it or not the fans play a big part in motivating the Leafs. I think most Hockey player feed off a noisy arena. As for player pressure in tor, its there, and it affects players big time. All these years of us not winning because players don't live up to there billing, is in a big part due to media, and fan pressure.

Why has Winnipeg not been propelled into the playoffs by their rabid fans then?

Claude Noel?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

If you can't tune out the media and the fans you have no place being a goalie.

I really couldn't give a rats behind what the media thinks, says or prints and most players would probably feel the same way.  But as fans of our team and our players, we have an obligation to support our players and not run them out of town.  We have become so accustomed to having lineups of crappy players that some of us may have forgot who we are as Leaf fans.  I remember 11 years ago and before that if someone trash talked one of the Leaf players whether in conversation or online, we would be all over that person.  We need to get that attitude back.

Yeah, that's a nice thought and all, but fans of teams(in every sport) have been complaining about players since the beginning of time. It's not a 'new' thing for Toronto fans to complain about the players the Leafs ice.

I also don't think the players give a rats rearend about what you, or I, or any fan thinks. They can't. It's their job not to. Like I said, if you can't take the scrutiny, you have no place being a goalie or for that matter, an NHL player.

Well we are Leaf fans and we are supposed to be different than other fans.  I remember when polls were taken that Leaf fans were rated the most supportive of their NHL hockey team and overall 2nd or 3rd in terms of all major league sports in North America, but other polls suggest Toronto is one of the worst sports cities in North America. 

Back in '93 when the Wings dominated the Leafs in the first two games in Detroit and everyone was saying the series would be done in 4 or 5 games.  But the Leafs came back and won the next two in Toronto and the series in 7 thanks to the huge support of the fans.  So we can continue to throw bullets at players or we can go back to our roots and throw them our support.   

Call me crazy, but I don't buy it.

I remember game 3 as if it happened yesterday - the Gardens was loud and rocking.  After that game some of the players couldn't believe the support that came from the fans - it got them pumped up even more for the game.  Conversely, if the fans were silent or unsupportive that game, I don't think the Leafs would have had a chance in the series.

Let's ignore the thought process that the fans helped win that series.....When, if ever, have the Leaf fans been unsupportive to a playoff team? Last spring? Naahhh I'd say the 10's of thousands standing outside to watch on a big screen screamed support. The 9 years before that? Oh that's right!

Yeah, we Leaf fans are different. We continue to support a mediocre/below mediocre product when many team's fans up and walk away. That doesn't excuse the players, coach, usher's from being criticized. I pay handsomely for a service that they provide. If I go to a concert and the lead singer sucks, or shows up 2 hrs late, I'm going to complain. What's the difference?

 

[Redleaf]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/29/maple-leafs-bernier-has-no-1-role-virtually-locked-down

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/29/maple-leafs-bernier-has-no-1-role-virtually-locked-down

That's been pretty clear for the last 6 weeks I'd say.

Sort of like the weather man predicting it'll snow yesterday.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Bernier has a career .918 SV% and in roughly 1000 more shots against, Reimer's is .914.

No point naming either one the undisputed #1 at this point.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Bernier has a career .918 SV% and in roughly 1000 more shots against, Reimer's is .914.

No point naming either one the undisputed #1 at this point.

Sorry, Pot, the mob has spoken!

 

[ZBBM]

Bernier has a career .918 SV% and in roughly 1000 more shots against, Reimer's is .914.

No point naming either one the undisputed #1 at this point.

Sorry, Pot, the mob has spoken!

Yeah, I love articles like that.  Worthless.

You're right PV, neither has earned #1.  I think Bernier will come out on top eventually, but the competition should go on.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

While I agree that naming anyone #1 is a silly thing to do, what do career numbers have to do with it?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

While I agree that naming anyone #1 is a silly thing to do, what do career numbers have to do with it?

What don't they have to do with it?  So you can hopefully better predict future performance based on the larger sample size of their careers to date rather than on the basis of 55 games?  So you can look at a player's great numbers or poor numbers in a certain period and compare it with their historical numbers?

I don't know why you wouldn't look at career numbers.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Bernier has a career .918 SV% and in roughly 1000 more shots against, Reimer's is .914.

No point naming either one the undisputed #1 at this point.

I'm not sure about "naming" a #1 per se but in the last 13 games Bernier has 9 starts and starts again tonight.

It seems clear that Randy has mad up his mind, regardless of what the mob thinks.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Bernier has a career .918 SV% and in roughly 1000 more shots against, Reimer's is .914.

No point naming either one the undisputed #1 at this point.

I'm not sure about "naming" a #1 per se but in the last 13 games Bernier has 9 starts and starts again tonight.

It seems clear that Randy has mad up his mind, regardless of what the mob thinks.

Well yeah, I can't control what Carlyle does, was just speaking more generally.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know why you wouldn't look at career numbers.

I depends on how long the career is. In general, anything that's more than 3 years in past isn't a great indicator of what a player is likely capable of now, unless it's part of an obvious trend or a consistent track record.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

While I agree that naming anyone #1 is a silly thing to do, what do career numbers have to do with it?

What don't they have to do with it?  So you can hopefully better predict future performance based on the larger sample size of their careers to date rather than on the basis of 55 games?  So you can look at a player's great numbers or poor numbers in a certain period and compare it with their historical numbers?

I don't know why you wouldn't look at career numbers.

Because we're not talking about who's had a better career. A number one goalie is always subjective to who's been playing better lately. Schneider is playing more than Brodeur in Jersey.

If both goalies had played 25 or so games and had near identical numbers for those games then I could see looking at career numbers but in that case, why would you be anointing someone as your number one?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't know why you wouldn't look at career numbers.

I depends on how long the career is. In general, anything that's more than 3 years in past isn't a great indicator of what a player is likely capable of now, unless it's part of an obvious trend or a consistent track record.

IMO, when the other option is looking at a combined 55 games, it's the preferred option.