Grabovski Bought Out

[Kin]

Grabovski will sign somewhere, like mentioned he's getting married, there's no rush to ink a deal today.

Yeah, but it's not like if he weren't getting married he'd be out there burning the phonelines down to field offers. That's what agents are for.

I know. But he's likely to say I do to e woman he's marrying before answering the phone to say I do to a team calling.  He'd still have to talk to his agent and decide. If its anything like the last wedding I was at, might not be today.

Sure, but we could still be hearing about interest even if Grabo isn't actively directing traffic. Likewise, considering how important today is for him professionally, where not being the guy without a chair when the music stops means millions to him over and above just the "hey honey, where are we moving in a couple months" consideration, I'm guessing he could take a few minutes to see his texts.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Feast on the goo everybody.

 

[drummond]

Well if this was worth of firing Grabo, well the Leafs are in big trouble. Where is that big master plan of Nonis some posters here were so sure about?

Clarkson is done in two/three years... and will be prime candidate for buyout. Bozak will limit Kessel/Lupul 5 more years by coughing up their plays.

The team got tougher, howerver lost great amount of speed and scoring. Unless Bernier comes up with .930 saves percentage this team can forget about playoffs.

Especially if that genius Nonis decides to let Franson walk as rumours suggest.

 

[Stickytape]

Especially if that genius Nonis decides to let Franson walk as rumours suggest.

I'm going to pretend that isn't a thing.

 

[Zee]

Well if this was worth of firing Grabo, well the Leafs are in big trouble. Where is that big master plan of Nonis some posters here were so sure about?

Clarkson is done in two/three years... and will be prime candidate for buyout. Bozak will limit Kessel/Lupul 5 more years by coughing up their plays.

The team got tougher, howerver lost great amount of speed and scoring. Unless Bernier comes up with .930 saves percentage this team can forget about playoffs.

Especially if that genius Nonis decides to let Franson walk as rumours suggest.

Franson can't just walk he's a RFA.

 

[Deebo]

Well if this was worth of firing Grabo, well the Leafs are in big trouble. Where is that big master plan of Nonis some posters here were so sure about?

Clarkson is done in two/three years... and will be prime candidate for buyout. Bozak will limit Kessel/Lupul 5 more years by coughing up their plays.

The team got tougher, howerver lost great amount of speed and scoring. Unless Bernier comes up with .930 saves percentage this team can forget about playoffs.

Especially if that genius Nonis decides to let Franson walk as rumours suggest.

There is no letting Franson walk, there is signing him or trading him, I suppose there is the outside chance of getting RFA draft pick compensation.

 

[Kin]

Especially if that genius Nonis decides to let Franson walk as rumours suggest.

Wow. I know bending the truth to make Nonis looks bad is big right now but there isn't even anything resembling that in the wind. There's rumour that Nonis might trade Franson but maybe you could wait to see if that happens and for what before deciding it's a bad move.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Franson can't just walk he's a RFA.

Yeah, what rumours is he reading. Might want to follow somebody else...

 

[KW Sluggo]

The years of decent production preceded the new contract and after the $5.5M deal was signed, bye-bye production, so long initiative, bye bye first line, so long second line an hello checking line.

I am sure it is just a coincidence.

I don't know. Did you structure that as a post hoc ergo prompter hoc just to amuse me? Given that nothing in there even suggests a plausible account of why a player's production would decline -- offers no solid evidence other than the nonsensical 'intangibles' you hear trotted out on talk radio and in terrible bars -- I can only assume that.

This is not about past performance. It is about a diminishing return on an aging athlete who is tied up at $5.5 per year for the next four years.

Tell me about this after Nonis signs Grabbo's replacement from the UFA pool.

If he is worth anything close to what you suggest why would nobody take him in a trade. Grabbo has 10 teams on his approved trade list.

Why did not one of them want him? Price is too high for the on ice return.

You do understand that if a GM is looking desperate to move a player at a not-ideal contract, the incentives are for his potential trading partners to back off and acquire the guy after the buyout suggested by the desperation and acquire the player at no asset cost and for a better price... right? Or is that not a market transaction you think happens?

the marketplace has spoken and you are wrong, not the marketplace.

Pathetic fallacy. Nice. Am I responding to a performance artist? What is next, argument from authority? Can it be Glenn Healy? 

Grabbo would be a good fit as Stajan 2.0 in Calgary where Feaster is the keenest judge of hockey talent there is.

My god. Please, please tell me you're a fan of re-signing Tyler Bozak so you and I can spend the next year together watching Bozak's hairline recede in a Leafs uniform and Grabbo put up 60 points on someone's second line.

Propter, not prompter but that is the least of your errors

Bozak is not worth what they will pay him but no UFA ever is but that argument has zero todo with Grabbo. It's not a zero sum game.

As for re-signing him well I would rather have him than Grabbo. Aside from being younger, the fact is he held onto his job on the first line, Grabbo did not and if you cannot score you had better be able to defend and Grabbo could not be effective there either.

However I do like the use of the distraction argument, i.e., if you cannot make a case for Grabbo, attack another player - too bad that other player is playing better than Grabbo.

You cross the line with the "performance artist" ad hominem attack. If you cannot argue substantive points you make personal attacks? Grow up.

The fact is that the marketplace has spoken and because you lack any reasoned response you slag me (among others).

I am truly sorry that your favourite player got let go but no other team was willing to trade for him despite the great value he gives with a handful of points and inability to defend and at the bargain price of $5.5M for the next 5 years. But it is what it is whether you like it or not.

 

[drummond]

OK guys I was wrong on Franson thing, you all seem to be happy with what Nonis managed to do over last couple of days, hopefully you are right.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

OK guys I was wrong on Franson thing, you all seem to be happy with what Nonis managed to do over last couple of days, hopefully you are right.

I think it's the fact that there is so much negativity only a day into the off-season. There is still 2 plus months until the team has to be solidified.

 

[Kin]

OK guys I was wrong on Franson thing, you all seem to be happy with what Nonis managed to do over last couple of days, hopefully you are right.

I think there's plenty of real estate between thinking Nonis has destroyed our perennial cup contender with his terrible moves and being happy with what he's done. I'm on the fence. I like some things, I don't like others.

I'm just not going to pretend that buying out Grabo or signing Clarkson are terrible moves that will doom the team to failure like some are doing.

 

[hap_leaf]

OK guys I was wrong on Franson thing, you all seem to be happy with what Nonis managed to do over last couple of days, hopefully you are right.

I think it's the fact that there is so much negativity only a day into the off-season. There is still 2 plus months until the team has to be solidified.

No, its that the starting 2013 centers have been solidified today: Bozak, Bolland, Kadri, McClement.  If that fills you with happiness, that's great.
You can dream about which will get the opening faceoff for the next two months.

 

[mr grieves]

Well if this was worth of firing Grabo, well the Leafs are in big trouble. Where is that big master plan of Nonis some posters here were so sure about?

Clarkson is done in two/three years... and will be prime candidate for buyout. Bozak will limit Kessel/Lupul 5 more years by coughing up their plays.

The team got tougher, howerver lost great amount of speed and scoring. Unless Bernier comes up with .930 saves percentage this team can forget about playoffs.

I looked at this a while back. If they don't fix their shots on goal real quick, they'll need something like a .936 S% -- and that's if their SH% only falls to 9.5%, which would be top third in the league.

While 11.5 SH% was highly unlikely (something like 6 teams have done in the last decade excluding the post-lockout PP-mania), NO ONE'S posted a S% like that since the last lockout.

Especially if that genius Nonis decides to let Franson walk as rumours suggest.

Was going to say the one thing that makes me feel better about increasing SF so the SH% can be lower is that the playoffs defense, which transitioned the puck well and improved the team's attack vastly, seems to be untouched.

Losing Franson would be a very bad thing indeed. But they qualified him, so he's not just "walking."

 

[Frank E]

OK guys I was wrong on Franson thing, you all seem to be happy with what Nonis managed to do over last couple of days, hopefully you are right.

I think there's plenty of real estate between thinking Nonis has destroyed our perennial cup contender with his terrible moves and being happy with what he's done. I'm on the fence. I like some things, I don't like others.

I'm just not going to pretend that buying out Grabo or signing Clarkson are terrible moves that will doom the team to failure like some are doing.

Somebody do one of those cap lineup tables so that we can figure out how much cap space they'll have left once they trade for Thornton.

 

[Kin]

No, its that the starting 2013 centers have been solidified today: Bozak, Bolland, Kadri, McClement.  If that fills you with happiness, that's great.
You can dream about which will get the opening faceoff for the next two months.

Agreed. The Leafs totally blew it by not signing one of Crosby, Getzlaf or Toews.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

OK guys I was wrong on Franson thing, you all seem to be happy with what Nonis managed to do over last couple of days, hopefully you are right.

I think it's the fact that there is so much negativity only a day into the off-season. There is still 2 plus months until the team has to be solidified.

No, its that the starting 2013 centers have been solidified today: Bozak, Bolland, Kadri, McClement.  If that fills you with happiness, that's great.
You can dream about which will get the opening faceoff for the next two months.

So who would you have replaced Bozak with? I see nothing wrong with having the other 3 in the slots they will line up in. If Bozak continues to help Kessel and Lupul have seasons they have had with him centering them, I'm okay with it. He also comes much cheaper than a legit #1 would.

 

[mr grieves]

The years of decent production preceded the new contract and after the $5.5M deal was signed, bye-bye production, so long initiative, bye bye first line, so long second line an hello checking line.

I am sure it is just a coincidence.

I don't know. Did you structure that as a post hoc ergo prompter hoc just to amuse me? Given that nothing in there even suggests a plausible account of why a player's production would decline -- offers no solid evidence other than the nonsensical 'intangibles' you hear trotted out on talk radio and in terrible bars -- I can only assume that.

This is not about past performance. It is about a diminishing return on an aging athlete who is tied up at $5.5 per year for the next four years.

Tell me about this after Nonis signs Grabbo's replacement from the UFA pool.

If he is worth anything close to what you suggest why would nobody take him in a trade. Grabbo has 10 teams on his approved trade list.

Why did not one of them want him? Price is too high for the on ice return.

You do understand that if a GM is looking desperate to move a player at a not-ideal contract, the incentives are for his potential trading partners to back off and acquire the guy after the buyout suggested by the desperation and acquire the player at no asset cost and for a better price... right? Or is that not a market transaction you think happens?

the marketplace has spoken and you are wrong, not the marketplace.

Pathetic fallacy. Nice. Am I responding to a performance artist? What is next, argument from authority? Can it be Glenn Healy? 

Grabbo would be a good fit as Stajan 2.0 in Calgary where Feaster is the keenest judge of hockey talent there is.

My god. Please, please tell me you're a fan of re-signing Tyler Bozak so you and I can spend the next year together watching Bozak's hairline recede in a Leafs uniform and Grabbo put up 60 points on someone's second line.

Propter, not prompter but that is the least of your errors

Bozak is not worth what they will pay him but no UFA ever is but that argument has zero todo with Grabbo. It's not a zero sum game.

As for re-signing him well I would rather have him than Grabbo. Aside from being younger, the fact is he held onto his job on the first line, Grabbo did not and if you cannot score you had better be able to defend and Grabbo could not be effective there either.

However I do like the use of the distraction argument, i.e., if you cannot make a case for Grabbo, attack another player - too bad that other player is playing better than Grabbo.

You cross the line with the "performance artist" ad hominem attack. If you cannot argue substantive points you make personal attacks? Grow up.

The fact is that the marketplace has spoken and because you lack any reasoned response you slag me (among others).

I am truly sorry that your favourite player got let go but no other team was willing to trade for him despite the great value he gives with a handful of points and inability to defend and at the bargain price of $5.5M for the next 5 years. But it is what it is whether you like it or not.

Shorter Sluggo: You made a typo, and Bozak's a good number one center because he was played as the number one center.

Is that a teleological argument or begging the question?

 

[hap_leaf]

No, its that the starting 2013 centers have been solidified today: Bozak, Bolland, Kadri, McClement.  If that fills you with happiness, that's great.
You can dream about which will get the opening faceoff for the next two months.

Agreed. The Leafs totally blew it by not signing one of Crosby, Getzlaf or Toews.

When they come in to town with their GWG I will remember your glib comments.  The Leafs could have done a lot today and didn't.  End of story and we will have to make the most of our wingers I guess.

 

[Kin]

When they come in to town with their GWG I will remember your glib comments.

Yeah, if Crosby comes to town and he's a really good player it'll sure show me.