Graham James Pleads Guilty to Sex Assaults (again)

[Kin]

But if the question was would you like to see months of police investigation and prosecutors time used to charge a person who has apparently been rehabilitated only to have the person plead guilty and receive basicly no sentence the answer may not be as affirmative.

I think most people's answers to that would that they'd like to see the system changed so that the sentence was stiffer and that all of these crimes, regardless of when they were committed, were prosecuted to the full extent of the law and the criminals received harsh sentences for them.

Your argument is entirely based around assumptions that you can't back up like the cost of the police investigation and whatever the sentence may end up being. All we do know is that this guy is getting prosecuted for sexual assault and I'm guessing that everyone except you is going to be relatively fine with that.

 

[Bates]

Now most of this I agree completely with. Child molesters prob should spend a considerable amount of their life in jail as they have taken a lot of life from their victims. And if this prosecution was to result in a long incarceration for James then I am all for it but I have read a few lawyers and law professors who think this will end in a conditional sentence and I don't think that makes sense???

 

[Bullfrog]

There was obviously an investigation by Winnipeg police as well as the Crown Attorney or the case would never have went to a plea bargain. And I would guess that the crowd source answer woulkd really depend on the question. If I asked if they would like to see a child molester cahrged and jailed for their crime I would assume every person asked would say yes. But if the question was would you like to see months of police investigation and prosecutors time used to charge a person who has apparently been rehabilitated only to have the person plead guilty and receive basicly no sentence the answer may not be as affirmative.

I'm not following how his apparent rehabilitation has anything to do with whats being discussed. His guilt regarding a serious crime deserves a prosecution. his victim deserves justice. If the courts decide that justice is a slap on the wrist and a frown, well, that's another debate. He needs to be sentenced and held accountable, as others have mentioned. if another victim comes forward in ten years from now, then he needs to be sentenced again.

 

[cw]

... but I have read a few lawyers and law professors who think this will end in a conditional sentence and I don't think that makes sense???

If he's guilty, it doesn't.

BUT if they didn't have a solid case to prove that guilt - it's flimsy "he said he said" stuff with few witnesses from 25 years ago, etc then they'd have to explore some sort of plea bargain with a lighter sentence to get any conviction at all. Remember, the Crown has to be able to prove their case.

Although conditional sentence has been mentioned in reports, it's seems quite remote conjecture to me that that is what will transpire:
Graham James could avoid more jail tim
McGillivray says a defence lawyer could argue James hasn't been convicted of any crimes since that period in the 1980s and '90s.

Crown attorney Colleen McDuff has said she will be seeking penitentiary time, but McGillivray says that's not a given.

"What the judge could do is consider the time that has passed since that period in the accused's life and say, 'Well, look, we've had 20 years ? where we've had no similar conduct, so we're not looking at specific deterrence and we're not looking at rehabilitation, because that's all done.'

"A lighter sentence could include no jail time. It could include a conditional sentence."

There is no shortage of people calling for a harsh sentence.

A defence lawyer may well try to make that argument. The judge may consider some of that argument as legit because based upon the facts known to us, it may well be legit. The important thing that I derive from that exchange above is that the Crown is seeking jail time. They didn't have to bargain it away to get a guilty plea so the judge has the option to send him to jail. The Crown wouldn't push for jail time if a deal had been made to limit jail time to get the plea.

Something else they didn't say and may have come up with the Kennedy case: they may have asked for a full confession of all his crimes to arrive at the original sentence they did for those crimes. If he lied to them back then and said Kennedy and the other victim were the only ones, then the judge could really let him have it in this go round. They can argue "how do we know he's not lying about others since? How do we know he's really rehabilitated? He lied to us to get a light sentence the last time."

If James is caught doing that, they'll lock him up for a long time.

Lastly, in a high profile case such as this is, the judge is going to be careful. If he has any hopes to advance higher up in the courts, he can't afford to mess this sentence up.

 

[cw]

There was obviously an investigation by Winnipeg police as well as the Crown Attorney or the case would never have went to a plea bargain. And I would guess that the crowd source answer woulkd really depend on the question. If I asked if they would like to see a child molester cahrged and jailed for their crime I would assume every person asked would say yes. But if the question was would you like to see months of police investigation and prosecutors time used to charge a person who has apparently been rehabilitated only to have the person plead guilty and receive basicly no sentence the answer may not be as affirmative.

I'm not following how his apparent rehabilitation has anything to do with whats being discussed. His guilt regarding a serious crime deserves a prosecution. his victim deserves justice. If the courts decide that justice is a slap on the wrist and a frown, well, that's another debate. He needs to be sentenced and held accountable, as others have mentioned. if another victim comes forward in ten years from now, then he needs to be sentenced again.

One consideration for deciding incarceration is whether the criminal is a danger to himself or society. If James can establish he has rehabilitated (the stats for pedophiles vary with some some studies being quite favorable - I'm not sold), then the judge has to give that consideration.

That doesn't get him off the hook for being punished for this crime. As well, repeat offenders get stiffer sentences.

 

[moon111]

...And for the record Moon I am with you 100% on your idea. I would enjoy my peace in my 8x10 after settling my score with Graham.

Doesn't Fleury own a concrete business?  There's way to make a body disappear for a long, long time.

 

[Bates]

Fleury pretty irate about this article in the Montreal Gazette but the article is fairly accurate.  Not nice and a kick in the groin for Theoren but also fairly accurate.

link

 

[Corn Flake]

Fleury pretty irate about this article in the Montreal Gazette but the article is fairly accurate.  Not nice and a kick in the groin for Theoren but also fairly accurate.

link

Here is a response to his article from Julie Veilleux, known around the hockey circles on twitter @metricjulie for her recent blog where she revealed she was a victim of incest. Jeff Marek, among others, have given her a lot of credit for speaking out.

This was her response to Hickey from last night: http://metricjulie.tumblr.com/#14138707559

She was also interviewed on TSN Montreal last night as well after writing that.  Interesting stuff.  The last paragraph just drills it home.

 

[Bates]

I am lucky to have no understanding of the feelings of a sexual abuse victum and am very thankful for that.  The first article does have a good point about Fleury being a part owner of the Hitmen and allowing James to be hired by that team.  He could have had the pervert fired without even coming out with his story.

 

[Corn Flake]

I am lucky to have no understanding of the feelings of a sexual abuse victum and am very thankful for that.  The first article does have a good point about Fleury being a part owner of the Hitmen and allowing James to be hired by that team.  He could have had the pervert fired without even coming out with his story.

Have you read his book? He explains that situation in detail.

 

[Bates]

I have read the book and he can explain it all he wants.  The basics are that he owned a team that had young vulnerable kids who were being coached by the same monster that abused him.  He could have had this person ousted from that team easily and yet did not do it.  Not going to other teams I would understand but this was his team. 

 

[Kin]

I have read the book and he can explain it all he wants.  The basics are that he owned a team that had young vulnerable kids who were being coached by the same monster that abused him.  He could have had this person ousted from that team easily and yet did not do it.  Not going to other teams I would understand but this was his team.

I'm sure it tears Theo Fleury up inside that he did not react to his abuse courageously enough for your liking.

 

[Bates]

What Theo thinks of me matters none to me but the issue here is that Theo has reacted towards jr hockey not haveing done enough to prevent people like James from continueing his abuse after rumblings were heard.  He writes almost everyday that we still don't do enough to prevent authority figures from being in a position to abuse kids.  Yet when he was old enough and rich enough to own his own WHL team the person he put in charge was none other his own abuser and he allowed this person to be in the same position he had when he abused Theo.  That sir is a hypocrite no matter how you spin it.

 

[Kin]

Yet when he was old enough and rich enough to own his own WHL team the person he put in charge was none other his own abuser and he allowed this person to be in the same position he had when he abused Theo.

It's almost as if Theo Fleury was kind of messed up by the years of sexual abuse he suffered. Still, your jaw-droppingly insensitive and ignorant monday morning quarterbacking is noted.

 

[Bates]

Again I have no expectation of how he should proceed with his personal demons and when or how he should contact the authorities or any of that.  My issue would be that he hired this monster to look after kids in his business.  All he had to do was simply veto the hiring.  Not too difficult for someone who has it together enough to be able to play in the NHL at that time to make that decision.

 

[Kin]

Not too difficult for someone who has it together enough to be able to play in the NHL at that time to make that decision.

Yup. Theo Fleury definitely had it all together.

 

[Bates]

Graham James coached the Calgary Hitmen in 95. Theo was playing for the Flames then and for several years after.  The majority of Fleury's troubles came well after this time frame and I would guess that he certainly would have had it together enough to know that James was a bad and risky hiring yet he did nothing.

 

[Kin]

Graham James coached the Calgary Hitmen in 95. Theo was playing for the Flames then and for several years after.  The majority of Fleury's troubles came well after this time frame and I would guess that he certainly would have had it together enough to know that James was a bad and risky hiring yet he did nothing.

Well, I hope very much for your sake you never have any first hand experiences in dealing with abuse victims and you come face to face with just how ridiculous you sound right now.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Speechless.