Hurricanes @ Leafs - Nov. 9th, 7:00pm - TSN4

[Guilt Trip]

When Yeo was hired in St. Louis they were 24th in CF (47.4%) and 24th in xGF (46.8%). After Berube was hired they had the 7th best CF (52.7%) and best xGF in the entire league (55.3%).

Maybe it wasn't a magical button but Berube did something in St. Louis that drastically changed the way they were performing aside from just calling Binnington's name while he was hot.

He certainly hasn't really been able to do that here yet though.

Yeo coached the first 18 games that year. They went 7-8-3, scored 56 goals(3.11~13th best) and 57 against(3.17GAA~18th)
Berube was hired Nov 19 2018. In his first 21 games, they went 9-11-1, scored 54 goals(2.57~26th), and had 71 against(3.38GAA~25th).
Binnington played his first game Jan 7. The team went 29-9-5 after he joined. He played 30 of those games, went 24-5-1 with a .930 SV% and a 1.87GAA. Their GAA dropped to 2.14 which was 2nd best in the league. Their goals for also went to 12th best from 25th.
So the team actually got worse when Berube initially took over until Binnington showed up 21 games later. Coincidence? Doubtful. Did Berube have an effect? Sure but let's be perfectly clear here, Binner was the reason they went on a tear and won the cup.

 

[Guilt Trip]

From NHL .com Knies is 16th Marner is 24th. We'll see how he does in the playoffs.

POINTS PER GAME...Marner is actually tied for 15th. Knies is 18th in P/GP.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I think the Marner factor is being overblown. Marner being a good defensive forward doesn't make Myers flub every clearing attempt. It doesn't stop Carlo from being a pylon that gets walked around...or Benoit for that matter. It doesn't stop Rielly from being clueless in the defensive zone.

We don't have a single pairing that is playing well right now.

A mutual moving on with Marner wasn't the problem...it was dragging the feet to get pennies on the dollar for him that was the problem. It was not using the cap space to not upgrade the blueline with any puck movement.

The team was obviously going to be worse without Marner. This isn't a Marner problem though.

I'm not even saying that Marner being on or off this team would help fix what we are seeing. I would argue that these problems are an ongoing problem with this team and their commitment to "giving a shit". I just question whether what we saw from Marner was his "give a damn" and not a toddler throwing a tantrum.

When you're dealing with a team that had only one major change this offseason, and has seen a significant change in effort (I'm going to ignore the flubs, because ultimately, it's not the real problem) you have to wonder what is going on internally with the team. Are they already fed up with Berube? Was Marner the real fire in the dressingroom? Is there something else happening here?

I can't, for the life of me, understand a hockey player giving a 1/2 or even 3/4 level effort. I truly do not get it. And that is the biggest concern for me. Myers giving the puck away ie easily explainable. He's just not good enough. But half assed efforts are even harder to explain. It screams "I don't care if we win or we lose" and that's far more concerning than what your number 7 or 8 dman does. The "I don't care" from your star players only highlights what the 7 or 8 dman does (or doesn't do).

The defensive problems are also a result of the effort level. If this team was going all out offense, they'd at least be generating shots. They're not. They're one and done. And most times, not even one. Just dump, lose the race and give up a 2 on 1.

 

[ZBBM]

I got eyerolled a couple of weeks ago before they went on their little winning streak when I stated what is obvious to literally every non-Leaf-fan objective observer: they lost their best all-round player, and a Selke-level forward, for nothing. You don't come out of that a better team. Period. And they are not.

What I would not have predicted is how the defense as a whole has come unglued.

Another factor that hasn't gotten much comment is that so far Carlo has been — dare I say it? — a worse version of Justin Holl. Unless he turns it around pronto, you can add that to the list of Treliving's epic fails.

Where I'm at is, I don't blame Berube. He is coaching his style, that what they brought him in for. I am almost — but not quite — ready to say it's time to fire Treliving. He's running the team into the ground. I can be patient until Christmas, but if this crap is still going on it's time for Dubas > Tre > Plan C, whatever that is.

 

[Guilt Trip]

And just for shits amd giggles, Carlo wasn't on the ice for any goals against last night. I'm not giving up on him yet. I think he can be a useful D man. I still think they need to get OEL on his correct side and bring up a puck mover like Villeneuve. The Myers/Benny thing can't stay. Both treat the puck like a grenade and generate next to nothing.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Benoit is fine as a limited #6 IMO. I don't think the problem is with the bottom D. I think there's a couple things at play here. There's no real top pairing defensive, dman on the team. I also think that team defense is the biggest issue. Whether that's a symptom of not being able to play the expected system, or the unwillingness, the jury is still out. I'm leaning towards unwillingness.

Watching Tavares, and the emergence of Robertson are really the only things worth watching right now. Unless car wrecks are your thing.

 

[dappleganger]

Think I'm giving them one more chance. I'll tune in for the Boston rematch to see if they have any kind of pulse, any kind of inner strength. If it's another game where they get doubled on shots and run out of the building physically, then I'm going to take a break and watch some other teams for a while.

I have a hard time believing this team is as bad as they've looked a lot of the time this year. It's more likely that either the coaching is bad (a lot of the same issues were present last year, covered up by goaltending) or the players (some at least) simply don't want to play the way the coach is asking. Maybe it doesn't really matter, the end result is the same in any case.

Or possibly the players aren't able to to play the way the coach wants, but the way this team has been just plain and simply flubbing pucks and making terrible decisions, something about the vibes or bad juju is happening here. This isn't simply coaching or the players playing, it's seem at least a little bit a chemistry or current mental state issue at work as well.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

POINTS PER GAME...Marner is actually tied for 15th. Knies is 18th in P/GP.

Ok got it, interesting Nylander is in third, so does that make up for Marners lost production on the top line? Not sure, is there a way to find out what Matthews p/gp was this time last year? It would be interesting to see how M&M compare to W&M this year.

 

[dappleganger]

Benoit is fine as a limited #6 IMO. I don't think the problem is with the bottom D. I think there's a couple things at play here. There's no real top pairing defensive, dman on the team. I also think that team defense is the biggest issue. Whether that's a symptom of not being able to play the expected system, or the unwillingness, the jury is still out. I'm leaning towards unwillingness.

Watching Tavares, and the emergence of Robertson are really the only things worth watching right now. Unless car wrecks are your thing.

I love Benoit but I don't think he is fine as a #6 d-man. He is simply not good enough defensively regardless of the toughness and intangibles he brings.

 

[azzurri63]

That's not covering up Berube's sh*t. That's covering up a team that has no interest in playing defense.

The constant odd person rushes doesn't say a lot about the defence. It says a ton about the forwards. The gaps that they're creating by never having an F3 is allowing teams to exit zones with speed. That's overwhelming for most D pairings. It's especially overwhelming for D pairings that are subpar like the Leafs.

Matthews needs to be the first one put in his place. Does all kinds of great interviews about wanting to get back to the player from 2 years ago but I've only seen full effort for him on one shift. A PK in the 3rd period vs Pittsburgh. I'd send a strong message and bench one of, or both of Matthews and Nylander. Put them in the press box for a night.

It says a lot when a team loses their best player to Free Agency and the 35 year old, who took a major pay cut to stay, is immediately your best player. Not the 13.25million guy. Not the 11.5 million guy. The 4.38 million guy.

I'm sorry, we've raked MM over the coals a lot on here. Fans and media basically strung him up. But maybe he knew something. Maybe his "tantrums" weren't the problem. Maybe his tantrums were brought on out of frustration of playing with 2 next level talents that are more worried about their fashion than winning hockey games. It says a lot when you remove 1 player and the whole team looks like sh*t.

To be honest I'm tired of him. Especially listening to him after games. Shouldn't even have given him the C the guy is not a leader. 2nd highest paid player in the league and not even averaging a point a game. How pathetic. I agree with you regarding sending a message tired of these guys being coddled.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

I got eyerolled a couple of weeks ago before they went on their little winning streak when I stated what is obvious to literally every non-Leaf-fan objective observer: they lost their best all-round player, and a Selke-level forward, for nothing. You don't come out of that a better team. Period. And they are not.

What I would not have predicted is how the defense as a whole has come unglued.

Another factor that hasn't gotten much comment is that so far Carlo has been — dare I say it? — a worse version of Justin Holl. Unless he turns it around pronto, you can add that to the list of Treliving's epic fails.

Where I'm at is, I don't blame Berube. He is coaching his style, that what they brought him in for. I am almost — but not quite — ready to say it's time to fire Treliving. He's running the team into the ground. I can be patient until Christmas, but if this crap is still going on it's time for Dubas > Tre > Plan C, whatever that is.

What is a new GM suppose to do from here? Leafs have no prospects or draft picks. The only option would be to trade what is on the roster for picks and prospects.

I do not have any faith whatsoever in the current GM making any sort of moves that will transform this team.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

We are currently 4th in goals scored per game, guess where we are in goals against, yup last. We're scoring enough to win, gotta do something about the other. It's not losing Marner.

 

[cabber24]

Clearly, Tanev is the MVP of this team. They're completely lost without him.

I'm still not worried or maybe I just don't give a crap... not sure which. The D was adequate last season, the same guys, they'll figure it out.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Ok got it, interesting Nylander is in third, so does that make up for Marners lost production on the top line? Not sure, is there a way to find out what Matthews p/gp was this time last year? It would be interesting to see how M&M compare to W&M this year.

Matthews Pt/Gm after 16 games last year was 1.00. This year he's .88. The Matthews Nylander duo hasn't worked out so good this year. XGF 49.73% at 5v5.

We are currently 4th in goals scored per game, guess where we are in goals against, yup last. We're scoring enough to win, gotta do something about the other. It's not losing Marner.

Marner is part of it. He was arguably your best or 2nd best defensive player. Matthews didn't have to worry about having to cover for him on the D side of things. There is more pressure on 34 defensively while playing with 88 and others compared to 16.
Perfect example was the tying goal last night. Matthews was behind the Canes net, 88 was at the hash marks on the wall. Play goes in the Leafs end. How come 34 beats 88 to the high slot in that situation? 88 barely made it to the blueline when the puck went in the net. Now Matthews didn't play it right either but if 88 had actually made an effort, he could have and should have easily beat Matthews back into the Leafs zone to try and break up the play. That never or rarely happened with Marner.

 

[Chris]

Unfortunately, Tanev is almost 36 and has taken a lot of abuse over the years. He wasn't playing great before the injuries. It's quite possible he won't ever be as effective as he was last year and that is a HUGE problem for this team.

 

[Chris]

To be honest I'm tired of him. Especially listening to him after games. Shouldn't even have given him the C the guy is not a leader. 2nd highest paid player in the league and not even averaging a point a game. How pathetic. I agree with you regarding sending a message tired of these guys being coddled.

He got his 2 points last night though, so all is well.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

Matthews Pt/Gm after 16 games last year was 1.00. This year he's .88. The Matthews Nylander duo hasn't worked out so good this year. XGF 49.73% at 5v5.


Marner is part of it. He was arguably your best or 2nd best defensive player. Matthews didn't have to worry about having to cover for him on the D side of things. There is more pressure on 34 defensively while playing with 88 and others compared to 16.
Perfect example was the tying goal last night. Matthews was behind the Canes net, 88 was at the hash marks on the wall. Play goes in the Leafs end. How come 34 beats 88 to the high slot in that situation? 88 barely made it to the blueline when the puck went in the net. Now Matthews didn't play it right either but if 88 had actually made an effort, he could have and should have easily beat Matthews back into the Leafs zone to try and break up the play. That never or rarely happened with Marner.

Thanks for the stats, and yes maybe a goal here and there can be attributed to losing you know, But overall we're scoring enough to be near the top if we could get some D and goaltending.

 

[cabber24]

I like the team depth and D (with Tanev). Line 1 and 2 are scoring, line 3 and 4 have better personnel, the D and goaltending are the same, so what's the problem?

I think the Tanev loss is massive. We need a goaltending tandem, Woll should be good to go soon. Upfront, we're fine offensively. Coaching: complete garbage, I don't want Berube fired but he has to shoulder some of the blame and wake up.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thanks for the stats, and yes maybe a goal here and there can be attributed to losing you know, But overall we're scoring enough to be near the top if we could get some D and goaltending.

They miss 16 more right now on the D side of things. The offense is up 9 goals from last year thanks to Robertson, Maccelli, Jarnkrok who have 12 between them.