Hurricanes @ Leafs - Oct. 26th, 7:00pm - SNO, Fan 590

[Highlander]

I think they should be rotating the Goalies more often, play Anderson for 2 and whoever for 1 and repeat.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Really would love to see that face-off rule go the way of the foot in the crease era.

As someone who thought that there rule was completely pointless when it first came out, I've actually grown to like it. I think it's good that they're trying to focus more on letting skill guys win face-offs, and not having them turn into rugby scrums and stuff. And so far in the regular season, it appears to have been working as I think that was our first penalty for it and I don't think many other teams have been called for it too much. Players seem to have gotten the message.

BUT the linesman 100% blew that call:

https://twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/923719340968566785

If you're able to click the gif to stop like I can you can pretty clearly see the Canes player moved his foot past the line before Kadri did. The linesman wasn't even looking at the Carolina player, only Kadri. That's bullcrap. It also doesn't help that the linesman just doesn't drop the freaking the puck.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Is there a chance Carrick is nursing an injury?

He missed a game earlier in the year I believe, perhaps they are letting him heal fully rather than playing through an annoying injury that requires constant maintenance if you don?t rest it.

I feel like we've tried to make these arguments before to justify weird Babcock decisions. I don't buy it. Babcock likes Polak more than Carrick in a bottom-6 role. That shouldn't surprise anybody.

 

[Kin]

Is there a chance Carrick is nursing an injury?

He missed a game earlier in the year I believe, perhaps they are letting him heal fully rather than playing through an annoying injury that requires constant maintenance if you don?t rest it.

I feel like we've tried to make these arguments before to justify weird Babcock decisions. I don't buy it. Babcock likes Polak more than Carrick in a bottom-6 role. That shouldn't surprise anybody.

Also, if you're going to sit Carrick anyway what's the point in not being forthcoming about it? It's not like the Leafs release detailed injury info anyway, what does pretending he's just in the press box do for you?

 

[herman]

The new rules have spiked Matthews and Nylander's faceoff win rates as it favours hand-eye coordination vs brute strength. Also adding to the spike is Babcock letting Nylander take more of the strong-side draws so both players don't have to take weak-side pulls that often.

Edit: Kadri too

Obviously small sample size, so it's tough to draw too much from the current season's numbers, but to the eye, they look more comfortable as a group.

Nylander 2016-17: 40.2% 122 total draws over 81 games
Nylander 2017-18: 51.9% 77 total draws in 10 games

Matthews 2016-17: 46.9% 1130 total draws over 82 games
Matthews 2017-18: 51.5% 101 total draws in 10 games

Kadri 2016-17: 48.1% 1130 total draws over 82 games
Kadri 2017-18: 54.1% 146 total draws in 10 games

 

[Andy007]

Bozak a -3 in 12 minutes played. That line, even strength, is just abysmal. I honestly think that:

Hyman    Matthews  Nylander
Marleau    Kadri        Brown
Kapanen  Marner    Komarov
Leivo      Moore      Soshkinov

would be a superior lineup. Oh, and Carrick should not be sitting for Polak.

 

[rdowdall]

Bozak a -3 in 12 minutes played. That line, even strength, is just abysmal. I honestly think that:

Hyman    Matthews  Nylander
Marleau    Kadri        Brown
Kapanen  Marner    Komarov
Leivo      Moore      Soshkinov

would be a superior lineup. Oh, and Carrick should not be sitting for Polak.

I wonder if moving Nylander to center would be the better way to go.  You sit Moore, bring Leivo in, and drop Bozak to the 4th line.  So something like:

Hyman - Matthews - Leivo
Marleau - Kadri - Komarov
JVR - Nylander - Brown
Martin - Bozak - Marner

Only downside is moving Leivo to his off wing.  If they would sit Bozak, you could substitute Moore for him.  I just don't think sitting Bozak is an option. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I wouldn't mind trying something like:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown/Marner
JVR-Marleau-Marner/Brown
Martin-Bozak-Moore or Martin-Moore-Bozak

If Marner and Brown had to take turns on the 4th line this season I don't see any reason why it'd be unthinkable to put someone like Bozak there. Especially after the night that he had.

I'd love to see Marner with the Kadri line as it also balances out our more defensive forwards very well, but I could understand why you wouldn't want him with that unit right now if it's going head to head against the top opposition.

 

[Strangelove]

Bozak is on pace for a plus minus of -64 on the season. Quite an accomplishment given that the team is 7-3. That line is a trainwreck, and has been awful defensively for years now, including last year's playoffs.

 

[Andy007]

Bozak is on pace for a plus minus of -64 on the season. Quite an accomplishment given that the team is 7-3. That line is a trainwreck, and has been awful defensively for years now, including last year's playoffs.

Yea and quite honestly I'd have him scratched in my lineup, even if it might not be an option for Babcock. His only asset is in the faceoff circle, and that is one area where the other centres have drastically improved this year. I'm really not sure what else he provides; I'd even prefer Moore as the 4th line centre.

 

[mr grieves]

I can't speak for Nik but...

Wait, yes I can!

Me saying that was based on the fact that I thought/think making the playoffs was probably what's going to cause the team to do things that aren't ultimately in their best long term interests because they think they're closer than they are. So effectively what you're saying here is "aside from the potential harm, where's the harm?"

More or less.

When we see actual harm, I'll share the view that making the playoffs was a bad thing. I don't thinking signing Marleau (who fits their salary structure fine), getting a serviceable (if streaky) #1 goalie, or letting the value of JvR and Bozak dwindle to that of rentals really hurts them much. Not pulling the trigger on trading the expiring contracts or letting go of cheap, maybe good guys in the system before finding out what they are, however, will.

But we're not there yet.

IIRC the 2012 (?) team... making the playoffs taught management that (1) the core was actually really good, and (2) the way to win was to get guys -- no matter the price -- who wouldn't've let the last 4 minutes of game 7 happen. Both were, I think we all agree, really terrible miscalculations that had pretty immediate effects on the team's direction. Nothing that dramatic has resulted from last year's brief playoff run.

 

[bustaheims]

As someone who thought that there rule was completely pointless when it first came out, I've actually grown to like it. I think it's good that they're trying to focus more on letting skill guys win face-offs, and not having them turn into rugby scrums and stuff. And so far in the regular season, it appears to have been working as I think that was our first penalty for it and I don't think many other teams have been called for it too much. Players seem to have gotten the message.

Second. Happened in the 2nd period against Ottawa, as well. Was equally garbage then - for the very reasons you point out the call last night was blown. Can't put the authority for calling the penalty in the hands of an official that is directly involved in the play and doesn't have a clear view of both players at the same time.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I'd say drawing conclusions about how far away a team is from being a contender based on early season games is a bit silly.  Heck, the Penguins have gotten spanked a number of times already this year- are you going to say they AREN'T a contender?  (Sure, they do have the last two cups so you aren't going to take contender status away easily)

What I've seen so far is a team that sometimes competes at only one end of the ice and tries to skill their way to a win.  There has to be consistent effort on both sides of the puck, and that comes and goes with this group depending on the opponent and previous game result.

The games against LA, Washingon, Chicago, and Montreal are what I feel like this team is capable of but they don't bring it like that every night.  In all of those games, you could see their defense isn't great, but its passable with enough effort.  They wanted to win those 4 games badly enough they put in the work.

They've had other games where they competed on the offensive side of the puck, but did not compete defensively and got varying results:  Winnipeg, NYR, NJD, Det. 

Against Ottawa, their effort was there but as they got more frustrated trying to get through the neutral zone they started turning the puck over more, and if you are only passable defensively, turnovers are going to end up in the back of the net. 

Last night was the worst effort of the season.  You could see it coming a mile away.  Huge effort against an undefeated team that spanked them last year last game.  They weren't ready to compete to that level against a team that they thought would be a cake-walk.

When they play with consistent effort (say, like down the stretch last year and in the playoffs) they are an elite offensive team that is passable defensively.  Similar to the team that has won the last two cups.

 

[herman]

Babcock tried out some slightly different combinations at today's practice with JvR out for maintenance (or injury). Leivo looks like he's finally going to get the call.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Komarov - Kadri - Brown
Marleau - Bozak - Marner
Martin - Moore - Leivo

And then after 20 minutes, he shut it all down and sent everyone off the ice and proceeded to pick up the pucks.

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/923958067821035520

Babcock in full-on dad mode.

 

[Kin]

When we see actual harm, I'll share the view that making the playoffs was a bad thing. I don't thinking signing Marleau (who fits their salary structure fine), getting a serviceable (if streaky) #1 goalie, or letting the value of JvR and Bozak dwindle to that of rentals really hurts them much. Not pulling the trigger on trading the expiring contracts or letting go of cheap, maybe good guys in the system before finding out what they are, however, will.

But we're not there yet.

Ah. In the meantime sire, what would you like the rest of the peasants to do towards vile speculators and prognosticators? Burn them? See if they float like wood so we know they're witches?

 

[mr grieves]

Ah. In the meantime sire, what would you like the rest of the peasants to do towards vile speculators and prognosticators? Burn them? See if they float like wood so we know they're witches?

Maybe I was being a bit pedantic... but I think we oughta be careful to distinguish what the good/bad fortune of making the playoffs last year is likely going to do to this team from what it did to the Nonis team. By this time in the next season, it was clear the Leafs were primed to implode. In this case, it's looking like they'll probably have a shallower prospect pool in 2020-21.

 

[mr grieves]

Babcock in full-on dad mode.

He's a good coach and all, but do folks actually like Babcock?

I preferred Quinn, Maurice, and even maybe Wilson -- at least as TV characters -- to him.

 

[herman]

Babcock in full-on dad mode.

He's a good coach and all, but do folks actually like Babcock?

I preferred Quinn, Maurice, and even maybe Wilson -- at least as TV characters -- to him.

I like him.

 

[Kin]

Maybe I was being a bit pedantic... but I think we oughta be careful to distinguish what the good/bad fortune of making the playoffs last year is likely going to do to this team from what it did to the Nonis team.

There is of course every chance that what I said about last year's playoff appearance ends up being wrong and thinking that I'm wrong is, sadly, something this website still allows for some reason. However the nature of speculation is that it hasn't happened yet. If you'll allow me to be pedantic for a bit I don't think it was pedantic exactly of you to say I'm wrong about the future because the future hasn't happened yet.

The parallels to the Nonis club wasn't made by me or the person who said he agreed with me. I agree the team is on a better footing than that club was although I think it's a parallel that works because A) Similar mistakes can be made from a better position and B) the cause of those mistakes can ultimately be the same.

 

[Kin]

Babcock in full-on dad mode.

He's a good coach and all, but do folks actually like Babcock?

I preferred Quinn, Maurice, and even maybe Wilson -- at least as TV characters -- to him.

He wouldn't be my first invite for board game night(my hunch is he'd want to play Hockey Coach: The Game and his suggestions for Charades would be all be "Hockey") but he seems ok.