Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury

[Bender]

I still think they need an upgrade offensively on the left side of the JT line.

They were the 2nd most productive line in the entire league.

Are you implying we shouldn't improve them at all, or just that we should focus and improve elsewhere?

I'm saying Hyman-Tavares-Marner was one of the very best lines in the entire league this season and I don't see it getting better with any other left winger in the organization.

Really? I think Johnsson would be a huge upgrade. He had more points and was playing mainly on the 4th line for half the year. I think a kid like Moore who has more offensive upside would be better suited for that line also. They need more offence from the left side. Hyman only got 41 points playing with 2 superstars and that's not good enough. I can see Hyman along with Brown being traded to help pay for Johnsson/Kappy who I think have a lot more upside.

In what world is Moore going to get a crap ton more than 41 points on that line? I really don't see it.

Johnson ok fine, but I still don't get why you couldn't put Johnson with Marner, or even Kappy. What's wrong with a third line of Kappy/Johnsson-Kadri-Moore?

I don't get what moving Hyman really will accomplish. I wouldn't want to have him on our second or third (or fourth!) lines the way they are constructed.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Really? I think Johnsson would be a huge upgrade. He had more points and was playing mainly on the 4th line for half the year. I think a kid like Moore who has more offensive upside would be better suited for that line also. They need more offence from the left side. Hyman only got 41 points playing with 2 superstars and that's not good enough. I can see Hyman along with Brown being traded to help pay for Johnsson/Kappy who I think have a lot more upside.

I think that there's things that Hyman does better that would benefit the top line and some things that Johnsson does better. I don't really think that either is a significant upgrade on the other, and I think that one should be playing with Tavares and one should be with Matthews at all times which is what eventually ended up happening this season.

I don't think Moore should even be in consideration as a full-time top-6 option at this point.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I still think they need an upgrade offensively on the left side of the JT line.

They were the 2nd most productive line in the entire league.

Are you implying we shouldn't improve them at all, or just that we should focus and improve elsewhere?

I'm saying Hyman-Tavares-Marner was one of the very best lines in the entire league this season and I don't see it getting better with any other left winger in the organization.

Really? I think Johnsson would be a huge upgrade. He had more points and was playing mainly on the 4th line for half the year. I think a kid like Moore who has more offensive upside would be better suited for that line also. They need more offence from the left side. Hyman only got 41 points playing with 2 superstars and that's not good enough. I can see Hyman along with Brown being traded to help pay for Johnsson/Kappy who I think have a lot more upside.

In what world is Moore going to get a crap ton more than 41 points on that line? I really don't see it.

Johnson ok fine, but I still don't get why you couldn't put Johnson with Marner, or even Kappy. What's wrong with a third line of Kappy/Johnsson-Kadri-Moore?

I don't get what moving Hyman really will accomplish. I wouldn't want to have him on our second or third (or fourth!) lines the way they are constructed.

Moving Hyman gives you money to help pay Kappy and Johnsson if the Leafs plan on keeping them. If Johnsson can be signed for 2.3 mill do you keep him or Hyman? Easy choice for me and that's the kind of decisions the Leafs need to make. As for Moore getting 41 points. I don't know if he can. I said he has more offensive upside then Hyman which he does. He's also a tenacious fore and back checker, something Hyman does well. Hyman is not part of the core group, just like Brown. You can't pay guys 2+ million to be checkers in a cap world.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I don't think Moore should even be in consideration as a full-time top-6 option at this point.

Leafs don't really have a choice with the cap crunch coming. Like I said above, you can't pay over 2 million for a checker. You have a duo on every line and you add a cheaper 3rd guy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

 

[herman]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

This. But also, what a change of tune since that signing was announced

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1121446021882683403
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1121447564967075843
FREMULON

 

[CarltonTheBear]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

This. But also, what a change of tune since that signing was announced

I don't know what you're talking about *deletes a bunch of posts*

 

[CarltonTheBear]

GuiltTrip, let me ask you this: what do you think a $2.25mil player should bring to a team?

Or similarly, what do you think Hyman's cap hit should be?

 

[Guilt Trip]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

 

[Guilt Trip]

GuiltTrip, let me ask you this: what do you think a $2.25mil player should bring to a team?

Or similarly, what do you think Hyman's cap hit should be?

It's got nothing to do with that. It's about trying to get similar production with cheaper options. You keep the core together and you have to move players out whether you want to or not. Leafs have to make decisions on who they're going forward with. I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

 

[Bender]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

I believe you'll see both those guys plus Hyman on the team next season. Brown and the UFAs will be cap causalities. Kappy and Johnsson will be forced to sign cheap 1-year deals to get through the Marleau contract. Zaitsev getting traded, even if we're required to take a contract that's half of his AAV, is obviously going to be heavily explored and would give us a lot more breathing room as well.

With that said, if push came to shove and we absolutely HAD to lose one of those players, I'm trading Kapanen instead of Hyman. Kapanen is going to get priced out of Toronto eventually anyway. We can get him signed to a cheap bridge deal now but after that he's probably looking at $4-5mil after that and with Nylander and Marner ahead of him on the depth chart that just doesn't make sense.

 

[Bender]

GuiltTrip, let me ask you this: what do you think a $2.25mil player should bring to a team?

Or similarly, what do you think Hyman's cap hit should be?

It's got nothing to do with that. It's about trying to get similar production with cheaper options. You keep the core together and you have to move players out whether you want to or not. Leafs have to make decisions on who they're going forward with. I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

The Leafs have to maximize value, agreed, but it makes more sense to maximize value by subtracting guys who aren't providing good value for their contracts. If you don't think Hyman is providing value, fine, but their cap hit absolutely has to come into it and you are not replacing Hyman with an option than has better price-performance than Hyman right now. Do you think Johnsson/Kapanen will be cheaper than $2.25m? I don't. I honestly can't believe we've come to the point where we think getting rid of a guy like Hyman is what we're squabbling about.

 

[Guilt Trip]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.

Yes thankfully we don't have to. My whole point is you can't keep them all because of the cap so if it came down to keeping Johnsson or Kappy over Hyman, money being similar, Hyman would be gone and I'm betting so would everyone else because of the potential offensive upside. You can teach defence. Listen I'm not saying he isn't a good value contract but if you can upgrade a position for similar money, you have to do it.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

I believe you'll see both those guys plus Hyman on the team next season. Brown and the UFAs will be cap causalities. Kappy and Johnsson will be forced to sign cheap 1-year deals to get through the Marleau contract. Zaitsev getting traded, even if we're required to take a contract that's half of his AAV, is obviously going to be heavily explored and would give us a lot more breathing room as well.

With that said, if push came to shove and we absolutely HAD to lose one of those players, I'm trading Kapanen instead of Hyman. Kapanen is going to get priced out of Toronto eventually anyway. We can get him signed to a cheap bridge deal now but after that he's probably looking at $4-5mil after that and with Nylander and Marner ahead of him on the depth chart that just doesn't make sense.

I hope you're right that we can dump the guys we really need to. I def think Brown is a no brainer. He has to go.
As for Kappy wanting 4-5 after his bridge deal. Don't you think Hyman will be asking for similar when he's up in a few years? What really sucks about all of this is that the Leafs have done everything right but they won't be able to keep all the good players they've drafted/developed. Stupid salary cap.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I honestly can't believe we've come to the point where we think getting rid of a guy like Hyman is what we're squabbling about.

No squabble. No nastiness, just discussing differences. Nothing wrong with that. The realities of a salary cap make decisions very hard wouldn't you say?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

As for Kappy wanting 4-5 after his bridge deal. Don't you think Hyman will be asking for similar when he's up in a few years? What really sucks about all of this is that the Leafs have done everything right but they won't be able to keep all the good players they've drafted/developed. Stupid salary cap.

We still have two guaranteed seasons of what I'd consider solid value left in Hyman, and nobody in my eyes who could conceivable replace his role on the team (which again we might disagree on, but I believe it's a top-6 forward role + top PKer). With Kappy the difference is he likely will only have 1 year of an affordable AAV left and his role is smaller and therefore more easily replaced. Like I disagree that Moore could replace Hyman, but I think the likelihood of say Bracco replacing Kapanen is a little higher.

As for your second point, I was just thinking the other day about how I wish the NHL never got rid of their compensatory picks for free agents. It just seemed like a system that nobody would really be opposed to.

 

[freer]

$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.

He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.

No IMO it is signing Nylander to 6.9 mil. Again IMO was totally awful most night. They should of just let him sit.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I like Zach Hyman.  Works hard, is among one of the game?s better forecheckers, and the fact that he played through an ACL injury is testament to his on-ice character.

Definitely a keeper.