Ian White
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Rebel_1812
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For Ian white it was only a matter of getting Ice time. I believe the leafs buried him on the 3rd pairing and at forward when the genius Wilson took over.
Rebel_1812 said:
In Wilson's first season White averaged 22:50 a game, good for 2nd on the team. In his second season as a coach, prior to White being traded away he averaged 23:47, which is actually more than he's averaged right now with Detroit.
But sure, it's all Wilson's fault.
crazyperfectdevil
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
yeah i certainly didn't feel like white was undervalued on this team..in fact i remember when that trade happening thinking he was the best asset being moved by the leafs...but i also realize that you couldn't actually get phaneuf for nothing ....
Kin
New member
crazyperfectdevil said:
When the trade was made Bob McKenzie said that the best asset, or the player playing the best at the time of the trade, was White.
Personally, I think the reality of the trade is that the Leafs traded 1.05 for 1.00 but people have come away from it thinking the Leafs got a great deal because they paid all in nickels.
L K
Active member
Saint Nik said:
I think the only thing that made it mildly ok was they flipped out more salary with White (expected to be around 3M); Hagman (3M); Stajan (3M); or something like that. I do think the notion that we couldn't afford to have White on the blueline because we had the crap that was Beauchemin/Komisarek making far too much money was disappointing though. White seemed like one of those guys who was always putting in effort which doesn't seem to be the case with Phaneuf.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
What basis, other than an obvious dislike for Phaneuf you have, is there for saying he does not consistently put in effort? At the very least, he has put in as much consistent effort as White put in during his time here. Sure he gets beat sometimes, but I think it's more because of just plain errors than a lack of effort.
Kin
New member
L K said:
Well, not to get too deep into the trade again, but I think it's important to keep in mind where the Leafs were and who the guys they dealt were at the time and focus less on how they performed for Calgary/how Calgary dealt with them. Hagman was scoring at a 30 goal pace. Stajan was on pace for 60 points(and the last two years really should do away with the notion that any centre paired with Kessel will automatically have that sort of production). Those guys had real value at the deadline and could have been dealt somewhere else.
Kin
New member
Potvin29 said:
Well, it's not my position but, rightly or wrongly, there's going to be an attempt to try to fill in the blanks when a player like Phaneuf has fallen the way he has. He's a guy who may very well have been a better player at 22-23 than he is at 25-26. It's not like his talent has disappeared so there has to be something else. I wouldn't immediately make the leap to effort but it's as good an answer as any.
With White and effort, I think there's always going to be the belief that someone with a ton of physical gifts like Phaneuf isn't going to be working as hard as a smaller guy like White. Especially if White is right with him in terms of effectiveness.
B
brothert
Guest
I agree. I don't think Phaneuf lacks effort or skill or guts for that matter. Right now he is a better asset than White, bigger, faster, stronger but I think White is the smarter hockey player. His timing in pinching is great, he can hit the net with his shot, less prone to giving up breakaways, covers the defense better on counter attacks. I think as Phaneuf ages he will become more of a liability than an asset. I just don't think he has enough grey matter between the ears. I can't understand why he hasn't fixed his point shot. It's been brutal his entire time on the leafs.Saint Nik said:
Rebel_1812
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
Wilson, kept him as a healthy scratch and played him at forward.
bustaheims
Active member
Rebel_1812 said:
Yes, in the first October Wilson was with the team, he was a healthy scratch, and then, he played a handful of games as a forward (if it was even more than 1 or 2), and, after that - the final 65 or so games of the season - the only defenceman that got more ice time per game was Kaberle.
Rebel_1812 said:
Right, I know that happened for like a brief stint. But despite that Wilson gave White the second most amount of minutes among defencemen during their time together. Does that not mean anything?
And just to re-iterate, since it doesn't seem like you even read my post, in Wilson's second season White was averaging 23:47 a game and wasn't scratched once or played at forward at any point during the season. In Detroit this season he's averaging 23:22, which is less then the 23:47 that Wilson played him.
Kin
New member
Zee said:
That's just not true. Not with Versteeg, who as I've said many a time, was on pace for a 22 goal, 55 point season as a third liner here and it's not true of White who's final year here had him on pace for 13 goals, 38 points(which are the numbers he ended up with). Those aren't average hockey players by any definition.
Kin
New member
Zee said:
Those three seasons were seasons when White was 22-24. Those aren't average seasons for a defenseman that young, especially not when you factor in that White was getting #4 time both at even strength and on the PP(and those were years of McCabe/Kaberle getting two-three times the PP time of any other defensemen). That third year, he's one of only 29 defensemen in the league who scored 10 goals and he did it in 71 games. The first year he scores 26 points and is a +8 in front of Andrew Raycroft.
Be fine with whatever you like, just don't try to pretend that White hasn't essentially been as good as Phaneuf for half the price.